Why are colas affected by bud rot never used; what is the evidence for toxicity?

[sandyinlondon]

What would happen if some buds with bud rot were dried and then used? Why does everybody say bud rot (caused by Botyris fungus I think) makes weed toxic...is there any real evidence for this?

I understand that the same fungus is called "noble rot" when it infects grapes, and those grapes are used to make some great wines (sauternes, tokay, eiswine). In some cases the wine grape growers deliberately infect the grapes with the fungus to achive the rot.

I can accept that flavours for smoking may be adversely affected, but truly toxic I find hard to believe...I ask from the perspective of a non-smoking grower who is interested only in making edibles..

[Ckbrew]

It is not the mold per say that is the problem it is the toxins that the mold produce. They can not be removed, and are not destroyed by heat. So if you are using moldy bud you are ingesting the toxins. Molds are advanced life forms that have developed some potent toxins that can have adverse effects on other life forms.

[PRIMO]

If you don't have enough bud to toss the rotten ones you're not growing it right. Thinking it's ok to use is kinda like having rotten fish with your chips and skunked beer, it won't kill you but....., Just saying.

[Archer]

Hi.
not sure if the main cola is bud rot?
I'm a first time grower but, have had extensive issues with bud rot. At it earliest signs, a dead wilted brown leaf out of place. Shortly after a distict area, very specific with powdery brown or grey mold eating in or out of your bud.
Still in a small area 1cm to inch. No symptoms on other buds or leaves I assume if left it will spread everywhere?

[Rwise]

It spreads like wild fire, do stay on top of extracting it from the plant.

[Jimmynuetron]

There is a way to get clean oil out of it but I can’t remember. It might be isobutane... I could ask my friend, he is a chemist/ engineer in oil extraction. But if it’s only a small amount, toss it...

[sandyinlondon]

Ok - here is my report - I did not throw away the bud rot affected material but cooked with it and it was fine and gave a nice buzz - no problems at all...I think that this is a myth withoiut any basis in fact - the only reports of human toxicity of Botyris I can find is that the spores can very rarely cause lung diseae if inhaled - it does NOT produce mycotoxins as some poeple have suggested here

[SoOrbudgal]

Glad you came to a conclusion enjoy the taste of moldy weed.

[Ckbrew]

Good luck wit that. Not a recommended practice.

[kingfish]

To each his own.

[Archer]

I had a quick look myself into data, and couldn't find anything on toxicity? I will look some more. Looking into peer reviewed journals.

something to consider, is when something is burned its components are altered and creates new compounds by the chemical reaction (firing up a joint). You are ingesting these compounds.

There will be no research on this until it becomes widespread (smoking bud rot) or someone develops symptoms, and a researcher suspects the mold is responsible, and decides he can obtain a research grant to investigate.

Stay healthy.

[sandyinlondon]

If I was hungry enough I would eat a sandwich with green mould on it...,in most cases this mold is actually pencillin mold, and mostly it does no harm (or good) to you...That was my point; Boityris cinerea is never a hazard if eaten by normal people without a specific Botyris allergy, whther on grapes, or cannabis, or dfrinking wine made from Botyrisied grapes . It may turn people off at the idea, but it is NOT actually harmful.

Please give me ANY evidence of documented harm from using weed with Botyris (Bud Rot) on it... my text below is adressed to the "expert"who wrote this (in italics) text below

I can’t believe you are really seeking approval from actual growers to use an inferior product and one that is also potentially harmful or deadly. Just a quick check online includes numerous suspect cases and one possible death in the US alone. Even one suspect death from mouldy pot is one too many for a substance it is virtually impossible to overdose on. I would strongly recommend against the practice of using known mouldy or even suspect weed.

I am reporting one episode of safe use (first of many for me I suspect) and asking for evidnce of harm...indeed some evidence for "deadly" would be better...

PS The taste was fine for me...

[Ckbrew]

"I am reporting one episode of safe use (first of many for me I suspect)" - How did you reach the conclusion that this is safe after one dose less than 24 hours ago? Did you run a double blind trial that lasted, idk several months to a year or more? What bio markers are you using?

[sandyinlondon]

Dear Mr BU2B you are not giving me any evidence or references regarding deaths or tocicity of mouldy bud-rotted cannabis; this is what I am after.

In your personal about section it says this

The essential teachings: Do not accept anything on mere hearsay (ie, thinking that thus have we heard it for a long time). Do not accept anything by mere tradition (ie, thinking that it has been handed down thus through many generations). Do not accept anything on account of rumours (ie, by believing what others say without any investigation).


If you know so much then please give me your refs that that consuming bud rot/botyris is is dangerous...I am questioning your perceived wisdom which you should be encouraging, not rubbishing me for posting new information rather than rumours.
I have read enough about Botyris and having now seen it, I know it.
Powdery Mildew, Aspergillus, Pennicillium/pencillin mould and Botyris (bud rot) are each clearly distinct to me now (following some on line research). I am satified my WWLH plant has had bud rot and I cut it all out, I then and increased ventilation to lower the humifity in my grow tent. So far no recurrence, and I am glad I did not toss out the bud rotted buds as I am first time grower with no harvests yet. I must say it was great feeling getting high for the first time on weed I had grown, and if I had followed the usual advice to throw away the everything including the entire plant, then I would be in a worse position now.

[desertdan]

I smoked Mexican brick weed for 20 years. I am sure I smoked a lot of mold in that weed as did everyone else who smoked brick or swag. That weed was loaded with mold ,dirt bugs and who knows what else. I found a peanut butter sandwich in a brick one time. If you smoked brick back in the day, you smoked mold and other things too.

[Rwise]

Some folks are allergic to the mold spores, said spores are not burned away but pass right through to your lungs. It cannot be washed off/out, it cannot be filtered out nor extracted out.
You may not have short term problems from these spores, some do. But, what about long term, and you cant give me data on that either. I cant find any of the folks I new that molded their weed, not living anyway.
I will continue to err on the safe side and toss buds affected by molds.
BTW that moldy sandwich would put me in the hospital.

[desertdan]

My wife is very allergic to mold. I have to make certain there is no mold in my weed or she will become very sick and it would be my fault. I don't know how she smoked brick weed for years without getting sick.

[Ckbrew]

sandyinlondon Read this. You aren't a little kid and we ain't your parents. All we can say is make a fact based decision. Just because you looked and didn't find it does not mean that is doesn't exist and is not a concern.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/830892-overview

[PRIMO]

Did you ever think about using all that research energy to learn how to grow weed without bud rot? No? Thought not.

[DeadlyFruit]

I can appreciate a scientific interest in trying to find evidence of something before taking it on as fact, even if it goes against the current common understanding so I’m going to answer the original question with as much respect as I can. Forgive me if if this sounds repetitive, I think I wrote virtually the same post on another thread a few days ago.

Firstly, I don’t have any definitive information one way or the other. I definitely read a couple articles suggesting botrytis is not bad for humans (aside from people with mold allergies of course) but I am not comfortable the articles were sufficiently detailed or peer reviewed and didn’t take into account the impact of heat on the relevant compounds so I am not willing to accept them as fact yet. I admit my own squeamishness with mold is based on an ick factor. I don’t want to consume bud rot in any form mainly because it looks pretty gross and I imagine it doesn’t taste very good. I also don’t know it tastes bad for a fact and I freely admit many positive things are created by ‘good’ bacteria and there are tasty fungi (I happily point to mushrooms we eat and things we brew).

My concern is that I do not think I am capable of determining botrytis from aspergillus (a more dangerous pathogen) or any other possible culprit and I very much doubt anyone on this forum could do so either (forgive me if we have any experts on the subject but I doubt even they could recognize one from the other without testing). As such I am not willing to take the chance. I am also allergic to molds (hay fever type allergies not anaphylactic level) so I am careful because of that as well.

In short, I grow more than I can use and I know bud rot can take over if left unattended so when I see it I cut out the impacted buds and anything I am not sure about and dispose of it. If nothing else it slows down the bud rot. Bud rot starts out with a bit of wilting and fuzz but it eventually turns bud into a dusty mushy nasty mess that I don’t think would be usable even if botrytis isn’t bad for you. I also wash my bud and while I don’t believe my wash system is strong enough to destroy every known pathogen on the bud I do believe it washes away the majority of dirt/spores/pathogens in the same way that washing homegrown lettuce washes away the majority of stuff to the point people are comfortable eating it. Bud rot changes the texture of the bud and breaks it down so my wash system would not fix bud already starting to mold, just the stuff that may have picked up spores/bugs/dirt etc. My system works for me and everyone I gift my bud to and as long as everyone else’s system works for them and everyone they give stuff to (informed consent) then I wouldn’t have a problem with anyone experimenting and I would be interested to hear updates.

[sandyinlondon]

OK - we are now starting some better discussions; Thanks to deadly fruit for comments...if I grew more than I could use, I would have a different attitude closer to yours.

PRIMO...so far bud rot has not been my main issue, my plants dying is a bigger issue; if you are a complete beginner like me then growing weed is not easy, although this site and these forums are very helpful I find.

BU2B Its all very well to say that there has been no mould in dispensaries since 2017...in London there are no dispensaries at all and my access to buying in US and Europe has been locked for a while now

CKBREW of course one epidose of safe use is inadequate; I am planning my trial protocols now but I doubt thay will be double blind

[DeadlyFruit]

Do you grow indoors or out? I don’t think I have ever had a case of rot on an indoor grow but outdoors I definitely get a few impacted buds each time. If you are outdoors then I think you would just have to get used to losing some of your crop and do things like try to monitor it, handle any cases of rot asap and choose your seeds for mold resistance. If you are indoors and getting bud rot then I suggest you focus on 2 things - firstly get you environment under control. You need to be able to mainly control humidity with both a humidifier and de-humidifier (bonus points if you have these run by a controller). Secondly, given you can’t have bud rot without spores you must control what you let into your environment. This includes on your clothes/footwear/body/grow medium/water/etc.. Do whatever you can to avoid bringing spores into your tent. If you have had rot indoors then start by washing your environment with a bleach solution. When you are ready to harvest hang it up in the same tent so it stays in the same controlled environment.