Seedlings dying over and over again.

[Gjourney101]

Any photos for us? That would help a lot for a possible answer.

[JohnDope]

Any photos for us? That would help a lot for a possible answer.

exactly - a photo is worth a thousand words

[Gabi]

I'm back with a couple of pictures.
My plants continued to show said symptoms and it got worse and worse. Like I said, it just looks like overwatering. I gave them water every 5-6 days, not too much at once.

Right after watering the leaves started drooping, even though I didn't give much water and the coco was very dry. Then after a day the leaves went up again, actually looking good for a day, and then they started drooping again. No matter how long I waited, the leaves always stayed very firm, but after a week of waiting I was afraid that they're actually drying out, so I gave them a little water.
The new growth is very bright and the back of the new leaves are reddish colored.

I recently killed the plants and took a look at the roots. They were white. I actually teared the whole thing apart and only found a little brown spot on the long taproot in the middle. So I suspected that it was basically the main artery which somehow got damaged and the plant wasn't able to uptake nutrients or water as a result. Unfortunately I didn't make pictures of it.

I'm always starting my grow with fresh coco to avoid pathogens. I start giving a light dose of nutrients once the first true leaves appear.

Now I'm growing a new plant and it's already showing the same symptoms which all of my countless plants were showing since last October. It may be hard to see in the picture, but the new growth is already starting to get very light in color with reddish hues and overall growth is very slow.

This time I was extra careful to not give her too much water. I give about 15ml every three days when I can't detect any moisture.
I never used perlite with coco and at the moment I didn't have any. Next time I will be adding perlite as well.

I feel so dumb to be honest. I'm not considering myself an expert grower by any means, but I'm growing for quite some time now and I never ran into anythng like this, nor did I ever have problems with overwatering.

One last thing that came to my mind is that maybe my ph test kit may be off. I've always been using those indicator drops to test my ph and I never had problems with that. Maybe for some reason it isn't accurate now and my ph is actually too high? Can those symptoms indicate a ph that's too high?
I'll try lowering the ph just a little bit to try and see. It will take a few days to show any changes I guess.

Here are the pictures, the drooping plants are dead now and the younger seedling is my current one. The newest growh in the center is actually white, which is hard to see in the picure.

[9fingerleafs]

What you have is called pythium or fusarium (both root rot) and what you need is called trichoderma harzanium, it’s a fiungicide fungi, I know irony, you buy it in powder form and mix with the water you water with

[Gabi]

I'm actually using powdered trichoderma. It's a product called Bactrex from BioTabs. 😕

[9fingerleafs]

Have you just started? How many days? Usually takes 5 to 7 days to form the spongy protecting mycelium, if trichoderma doesn’t work then discard everything and start over, use more perlite, water less often and provide more drainage. Small plants may not recover as well as big plants in my experience

[Gabi]

I'm using trichoderma for quite a while now. I'm always adding it to the water I soak my coco with and I add a little bit with each watering.
By now I'm 1000% sure that I don't overwater. 😕 Next time I'll add perlite. I never used perlite with coco before and didn't have any problems.

I just checked the roots at the bottom of the cup and they are white... they're always white, so it can't be a root pathogen, or can it?
I'm so confused. It absolutely has to be some kind of pathogen, but the roots are always, always white. Maybe a little bit translucent. Is that normal?
From what I can tell the roots seem to be protected by the trichoderma already. There are little white hairs over the roots and they're looking healthy.

[9fingerleafs]

The same pathogens can attach the stem itself, I’ve recently had some plant dying because I used Vaseline to prevent ants from climbing the stem but it kept the moisture too high and the outer cells turned into white callus, like mother cells for plants, which wanted to grow roots but it just rot. It’s just hard sometimes figuring out what the problem is with coco/hydro because plants react so quickly sometimes there’s no time to fix

[9fingerleafs]

Btw I went back to adding a lot of perlite to my coco. I stoped because the coco itself holds more water so now I gotta water a bit more often

[crucialbunny]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you ditch the coco. It just doesn't seem to be working for you. Maybe put some nice organic potting mixture in a cup and let your seedlings grow in some nice soft dirt. I have never grown in coco so I can't speak with any experience but it seems to me to be the only constant in this problem's equation. What have you got to lose? Just out of curiosity, what led you to choose it as your growing medium?

[Gabi]

Yes, this is actually what I wanted to try next. 🙂 Yesterday I ordered a seedling mix and perlite.
I tried using soil once inbetween and had the same problems, but I will try again with a different mix.

I used to grow in soil and then I switched to coco because of faster growth, control over nutrients and lack of pathogens. I grew successfully in coco until I got root rot back in October because I made a mistake and the temperature in my grow tent went above 31°C. Since then my plants keep showing the same symptoms (but with white roots) and it won't go away. 😕

[9fingerleafs]

I’m having the same issue. Yesterday I lost two plants. I’m take a picture of one so you can compare. I’m thinking the heat is to blame too. I’m supplementing silica with DE starting today

[9fingerleafs]

This is one of the dead plants. This was today. Yesterday she was just like the rest of the gang.

[9fingerleafs]

I never take temps because it’s basically always hot outside but I may start to. I also have some frozen gel bags in the fridge I may try that too. Thank you great advice

[homegrown]

Hey 9fingerleafs, just curious..do your pots sit on that tile all day? I had a couple last year that i cooked(looked a lot like your pic). Had my fiber pots sitting on concrete for a couple of hours. I think i roasted the roots.

[9fingerleafs]

That’s another great observation. I’ve always done things this way but this summer is extra hot. I think I found the culprit. I think the heat caused the moisture in the top layer of coco to be too high and the stem kinda rot. When t removed the dead plant I felt smushy the branch exactly where it meets the soil and when I pulled to pluck the roots the branch snapped where it was soft. I think I need to apply trichoderma directly on the branch and the surrounding coco. I’m sure the heat allowed the fungi to consume the branch

[9fingerleafs]

THis is the same pathogen that attacked roots before destroying true main branch. Even doh I sprinkle trichoderma at transplant and the roots were white , the moisture of the coco and the heat allow for the branch to rot at the base. To this moment I lost 14 plants in just a couple of weeks

[9fingerleafs]

its only affecting about an inch deep below the coco, i bury the plants deep so they get support with the wind and all but never had this hapen before, just below the roots start and the branch gets though again, only an inch of slugy rotten branch at the exact spot kills the entire plant

[crucialbunny]

Interesting. Do you think maybe you built up the medium too high on the stalk and you got rot somewhat like a wooden fence post in wet soil? Because I use soil I will often stake my plants for support against the winds. When they are young cuplings I will simply use cheap bamboo chopsticks and when I re-pot I go with something a bit more substantial. You're issue is something I've never come across and it intrigues me. Thanks for sharing.

[9fingerleafs]

You are very welcome. This is a very hard situation for me but i threw 20 seeds in water and took 25 more clones and I will fill up my pots again soon. But for a less experienced grower this would have been just devastating. This kinda situations happen often and it’s the reason many people don’t grow for long. Sooner or later you encounter a wall that’s hard to climb. I just hope someone with dying plants with apparently no reason can stumble in here and learn something. Thank you for caring and for sharing too. Best of lucks my friend

[Korn]

Have you used the trichoderma before with success or is it something new? I have never used it. However, some species of trichoderma are serious fungal pathogens in shiitake mushroom cultivation. They attack and colonize both the shiitake mycelium and the wood substrate that the shiitake need to grow. I know that bactrex is supposed to help with roots but not sure what it would do to the trunk of the plant. I would also avoid planting deeper than the natural depth where the roots and trunk differentiate. It may be OK early on during the seedling stage but once the trunk becomes woody I would not cover it with any soil, coco, mulch etc.

[9fingerleafs]

Yeah I guess I learned the that lesson the hard way, I’ve used trichoderma before to stop root rot very effectively. It forms a spongy mycelium that makes the root mas much stronger and the top soil/coco hard to penetrate even for water. You can see the white fuzz all around and the plant is super happy. I use it to soak oasis cubes so the clones don’t rot. It’s a pathogen for other fungi, it’s a parasitic fungi in some sense. That’s why it used as a fungicide. A bit ironic but that’s how life rolls