Fox Farms Nutrients - Nitrogen at the end?

[NuggetMan]

My line of thinking, give it all the N it wants during veg, then transition though flower, let it wean itself slowly from the N during flower and concentrate more on the P and the K towards the end but still keeping a minimum of N at the end, make sense? Besides that, your fan leaves may be important but not as much during flowering stage, they just store the food. Maybe that's why people that defoliate (the debate still continues though) seem to think that it improves bud building???

[NuggetMan]

The only things I have used was water and molasses, but when my ppm's are getting high, I use flawless finish. It seems to cut the ppm's down really good per gallon so I don't have to use a lot. Through 10 completed grows, I am getting picky with #11 since it's my best so far and I want to squeeze every last bit out of it so I can repeat this on my next grow which has started three weeks ago.

[Preston12]

You need an exhaust fan with that setup? I ask because im moving forward to a similar LED system in a 2'x3'x6' space and im not sure if i will have heat problems

[gbauto]

Now that I have started my next grow, I was going over my notes and realized with the product called Cha-Ching that it has N-P-K ratio of 9-50-10. Now I am digging deeper. For Grow Big used during the veg stage the bottle says it has a 6 for N, 4 for P, and 4 for K. Open Sesame has 5 for N, 49 for P, and 19 for K. and finally Cha Ching with 9 for N, 50 for P, and 10 for K.. Here is the question: why would you want to use Cha Ching at the end of your flowering stage with 9 for Nitrogen when in fact, you want LESS Nitrogen during flowering and more of the P and K at the end? This seems contradictory to what would be considered normal. Since I do use these, I started thinking more about this and trying to make sense of it. Tiger Bloom which only has 2 for N, 8 for P, and 4 for K is low in N. Could it be that they try to balance out the N because during the flowering stage N is lowered considerably only using 2 in Tiger Bloom and 0 when using Beastie Bloomz? I have done it their way, I notice that when I get to the end, flush and harvest, my leaves have never really went "autumn" and have always been green, and I flushed the hell out of them. Maybe there is a better way to use them in a more logical manner??? Time to play around with the formula chart and redo the setup??? Time to contemplate... any suggestions or answers???

From what I've learned from nute manufacturers online, they all have said that N is used throughout the life cycle of the plant so it's still needed all the way through.
They also said that the plant only NEEDS elevated P levels during flower stretch, after that it should be returned to approx 50-100ppm.
Potassium(K) is the element that should be modified during flower. 100-150 ppm during veg and then as much as 300ppm during flower.
Dumping tons of phosphorous during flower is counter-productive.

[bboyfromwayback]

End result looks good and that’s all that matters. I’ve never bought a flushing product, all I’ve ever done is only use plain water the last couple weeks. In over 15yrs my experience has been less nutes equals happier plants and I harvest whenever it’s convenient for me.

[NuggetMan]

Well, I guess you won't find out until I actually do it. I have grown using Fox Farms schedule through 12 grows (#12 being the one I just started) but to a modified amount (less nutes) and fed at less times, I really spaced the feedings apart on my last grow and I now have probably my best grow yet, but what bugs me is not getting the fan leaves to "autumnize" or turn yellow. My end results have been from good to bomb, so it also makes me wonder if forcing the plant to cannibalize itself is really helpful, even after flushing the crap out of it, cutting down in the early am. cutting down in the mid afternoon, cutting down 1-2 days after watering, didn't seem to make any difference to me. End result was clean burning and good tasting smoke. As the emperor said to Mozart "cut a few and it will be perfect!"

[Gluteous]

That sounds like an awesome change to make! I'm totally on board my next run.

[Booger789]

I use fox farm products but I do not use the cha Ching I use the beasti Bloomz cause it’s 0-50-30. And I begin to use it once first flowers appear. I feed grow big right up till a couple weeks before harvest. And I really don’t flush I just feed water and molasses up to harvest. And have produced very good results.

[NuggetMan]

Yes, I can agree that during flower you need to have low Nitrogen at the end, but if the scale they use is from 0-10, for me anything above 2 might be too much. Why use 9 which then would be too much, at least my way of thinking.

[F10werChyld]

I use a product that is 0.1 N - 4 P - 4 K in the flowering stage my last 3 grows and have had great size & density of flower. I'm not a botanist, but I think the plant still needs a little nitrogen during flowering for overall health, but the P and the K team up to make flowers bigger and denser. I'm in soil, under 300W LEDs in a 24" x 50" x 60" insulated box with two 20 gal growbags and last harvest was just over 5.5 ounces. Ima try a ScrOG next time & see what I get!

[bboyfromwayback]

I’ve never used those other brands but they sound too hot for me considering I use 1/2 of the recommended dosage for Tiger Bloom because anything more will burn your plants quick. After a couple weeks of flowering the plants pretty much stop growing except for the buds. At that point nitrogen is pretty much just keeping the sucker leaves happy which get removed mostly anyways.

[NuggetMan]

Now that I have started my next grow, I was going over my notes and realized with the product called Cha-Ching that it has N-P-K ratio of 9-50-10. Now I am digging deeper. For Grow Big used during the veg stage the bottle says it has a 6 for N, 4 for P, and 4 for K. Open Sesame has 5 for N, 49 for P, and 19 for K. and finally Cha Ching with 9 for N, 50 for P, and 10 for K.. Here is the question: why would you want to use Cha Ching at the end of your flowering stage with 9 for Nitrogen when in fact, you want LESS Nitrogen during flowering and more of the P and K at the end? This seems contradictory to what would be considered normal. Since I do use these, I started thinking more about this and trying to make sense of it. Tiger Bloom which only has 2 for N, 8 for P, and 4 for K is low in N. Could it be that they try to balance out the N because during the flowering stage N is lowered considerably only using 2 in Tiger Bloom and 0 when using Beastie Bloomz? I have done it their way, I notice that when I get to the end, flush and harvest, my leaves have never really went "autumn" and have always been green, and I flushed the hell out of them. Maybe there is a better way to use them in a more logical manner??? Time to play around with the formula chart and redo the setup??? Time to contemplate... any suggestions or answers???