Breeding and Genetics

[Farmall]

... I find myself highly-motivated looking for the purple strains.. I have one or 30 questions that is starting to make me question strain purity/hybridization with a strong desire to try some breeding. After all, I am going nuts sitting home already 2 weeks. Fuck working from home...I need to get doing something can’t plant yet and the land is ready but the temps are not

i successfully produced several Black Cherry Punch , Citrus Punch Grape Ape,Granddaddy Purple and all with massive yields but I have seen at least 6 other varieties on our forum that could be identical plants, like these dark devil that oldjarhead100 has recently produced. Do you or anyone else believe that despite some cross breeding, the basic plants are similar ? Plant descriptions really don’t vary much by description. And at best, they read like descriptions for home sales, “ this lovely 3 room ranch.....”. As we can see , poetic license.

is a pure strain or landrace the basis of any hybrid? Where is the best place for a hobby person to develop a feel for doing some breeding

I realize my cousin might have similar features biologically but her ass is better looking than mine as a slightly different strain ...however, we are really dna compatible. What makes a truly different genetic strain and not just a few variants?

[BR2K]

I would start with fundamentals - research the Indica/Sativa/Rudralis differences. I am amazed at how far the auto strains seem to have come in the relative blink of an eye.

I perceive that commercial breeders have zero interest in sharing their hard-earned experiences. I can't say I blame them. A brief perusal and Google-Fu I did on marijuana forums didn't turn up any forums regarding breeding. I think here is your best bet. Just from my recent joining of this site - If anyone can learn to successfully breed their own strains of marijuana, it's you. GOOD LUCK!!!

[Farmall]

Thanks! Seems like I could have a few weeks home doing something....

[JDU]

It's too early to get too deep but I got that last question- a strain will breed uniformly. Until then it's a hybrid- be it F1 F2 or F32.

[Toker1]

Not always... now days you see many hybrids that are the basis for other hybrids. Only issue is, even with proper backcrossing and stabilization techniques, there is still much variation in the offspring.
many breeders prefer landrace because they can be stabilized with minimal variation in their offspring.
no, human cousins are not a good representation of the plant to plant relationship. Stabilization is typically a result of inbreeding. Take the domestic dog for an example. You breed dogs for specific desired traits. These traits are slightly present in the parent species (the wolf or what ever animal it came from). They breed the domestic dog to bring out these desired traits (aka, pure breeds). But when you cross 2 different purebreds you end up with traits of both parents. The more you introduce other different genetics, the more variation in off spring you will see.

[JDU]

Yep. Outcrossing hybrid to hybrid is scatterbreeding. & the further along you go the less of the original remains until you have no idea what you'll get.

[Toker1]

Yes, a few strains are like that. Bruce Banner being one. There are like 5 different phenotypes in that genetic pond.

[Farmall]

So starting with a landrace will be the first steps in creating the female side?

[JDU]

Yes but it don't need to be a landrace. An established, stable & uniform strain can be out crossed either for outbred vigor & then bred back into the original strain to enhance it, or to continue breeding the offspring of the cross together & back to both originals until it becomes stable & uniform. Don't get me wrong- hybrids make great smoke & it's fun to mix em up & name em but they are hybrids not strains. 😊

[Toker1]

https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-breeding-and-preserving-cannabis-genetics-at-home-n511

[Farmall]

Thanks... that was a good read

[Daskahn]

It’s an interesting concept.. I my self prefer new strains as to hybrids

[Greenlivin]

You guys have lost me. What’s the difference between a strain and a hybrid? Is it accurate to say all strains are landraces? I mean almost everything (we’ll say 95%) today is a hybrid, right? You can breed a strain back to its original genetics?

What about hermied seeds? It seems to me that would be one of the purest ways to get a consistent strain?

[Rwise]

A strain will reproduce the same thing from its seed. 2 hybrids will produce many phenos
Landrace has been the same for (hundreds) many years.
One can bread to whatever they desire, original or not.
I myself am on the side of getting rid of all natural hermies and their seed. I just grew out some I would call "selfpollinating" at this time. Its a thousand years to early for it.

[Daskahn]

You technically can’t breed back to the same genetics.. if you take like a kush and mix it with a diesel the new plant will never be just a kush again.. but you can make the plant show only kush traits.. but that’s a whole complex biology lesson.. and right now schools out and I don’t feel like teaching lol

[alltatup]

Cannabis plants have been hybridizing for thousands of years because humans have taken seeds from one place and planted them elsewhere. I don't quite understand what the obsession is with finding "pure" landraces.

I don't know nothin bout breeding. But I do know, for example, that the 3 seeds of Dr. Greenthumb's Em Dog that Humboldt Seed Org replaced because none of them germinated properly didn't seem to be great genetics. I'm trying to grow another one right now, and it's... meh...

Farmall there are quite a few books on Cannabis breeding. And don't start going stir crazy now, because this has just begun. You had better hunker down for the long haul. That's just the way reality is these days... I love working from home...

[Daskahn]

The reason people are trying to find land races.. is because land races generally have differing levels of the other cannabinols that are good for treating medical conditions while the average joe likes the thc... there are actually 113 different cannabinols and we don’t yet know what they are so we rush to find land races to find out what does what

[JDU]

Stability & breeding true constitutes a weed strain or a dog breed. Crossing those breeds creates a hybrid. Labradoodle, Bug, Bull Shih Tzu etc... Kudos to whoever marketed them because to a breeder they are give aways lol. Mix breeds cross with mixed breeds you get Heinz 57 or mutts. They can be great dogs to be sure- some of the best. They aren't a breed. You CAN breed an out cross (hybrid) back to one side or the other & ack & back only to that side & get pretty close but hardliners wont let ya call it a purebred.
A landrace is a 100% pure plant from a specific region. It is a pure strain. Another pure strain would be if a hybrid cross was inbred & linebred to produce a uniform genetic pool.
A hermie or breeding a clone to her mother is such a tight gene pool that you'll loose vigor fast. The larger the pool the greater the longevity.

[JDU]

& you don't always know what you're breeding- the laws of Mendel ism or dominant and recessive genes can puke your still and set ya sideways!!

[JDU]

Takes one to know one Plowboy!! Thanks!!

Well that's shitty. I've never been to a festival. Seen Alison Krause n Union Station live once.

[Farmall]

We went to. Place in Lanacaster Pennsylvania called American Music Theater to see Del McCroury and Ricky Skaggs... was amazing music to stomp your foot to. The event tonight was very small, maybe 20 players jamming and if 75 people typically come to listen, that’s a lot. Just anyone who wants to sit it and play. Some guys are really good and some just fill in and have fun.... it’s an every weekend deal, but called off for now

[JDU]

Sounds like a hoot!!

[Rwise]

Myself I look at the descriptions of the seed/plant and say "I can do that"! And why not? I have had a lot of fun making my own strain before (lost it to a thief), I would luv to recreate it, but some of the originals are extinct or near extinct.
You never know what will happen unless y o0u try! I am looking to do BB3 over GG4 (and a few others) this year.
I read somewhere if you take 4 males and 4 females you have 10,000 different genetics in the seeds produced. So when I took ~20 males and ~60 females, and planted the seed just how many possibilities were there? Then select the best of the best and plant on! Do this every year you'll never run out of weed again!

[Farmall]

I see the potential and it’s staggering, but then how would you figure out which genetic goes with which offspring...

[JDU]

Trial n error & meticulous records mostly.

[ZigZag]

I just finished researching cannabis genetics_ how it all got to where it is today from the beginnings over the past 2000 years ago_ from the first written records and archeological discoveries to today.
It's way too much to get into here but this is the gist of it.-
Cannabis has been around and has been interbred for thousands of years_with different objectives. Even the Landrace plants from South America, Mexico and Hawaii originated somewhere in Central Asia, the Middle East or Eastern Asia. No telling for sure. If you want to check the genetics of a specific cultivar then you should take a look at a few of the genetic testing labs that have been keeping records from samples provided by different growers sent in for testing. It's pretty interesting and considering there are now more than 16,000 different cultivars/strains its pretty daunting as well. These are a few great places to start your search_ Phylos Bioscience/Phylos Galaxy, Kannapedia & Strainseek.
What you'll find is that there is no real specific genetic "tree" you can use to back trace a specific cultivar back more than 3-4 generations because literally everything is a hybrid these days. Even Landrace strains are really hybrids that were transported to a specific region where they were interbred for generations without any genetic influence from other cultivars. During their "evolution" they adapted to there new environment and became stabilized. These stabilized strains are what are known today as Landrace Strains.
Examine the results from the different genetic tests and you'll be able to see which other strains/cultivars are most similar to the one being tested. You can get an idea of where it's linage developed.

[Farmall]

ZigZag. Do you mind saying where you found this?....sounds like a great source to start with

[Daskahn]

Farmall Phylos Bioscience/Phylos Galaxy, Kannapedia & Strainseek.
ZigZag watched a special on the evolution of cannabis and it said that in the oldest of ruins they have found hemp fibers in the masonry and hemp oil residue on pottery dating back 8k years and the fibers dated back 10-12k years..clothing made from it dated to the same period. that they now believe hemp is the oldest farmed plant on earth.. and without it “our” civilized world might not have developed without it at the very least not as fast as it did lol fast..
humans are the ultimate pot heads.. been around 100k years took 90k to do anything lol

[Farmall]

Odd as I have also read that in Egyptian tombs, they have found cannabis residue in pipes.

[ZigZag]

Sure, I'll see if I have some links to some of the specific sources but if you go to the Phylos Bioscience and the Kanapedia web sites they have both have good information_ they explain how their databases work.
Its interesting to see how many of the landrace strains share many of the same genetics. Phylos breaks cannabis down to six basic genetic types_ Skunk, OG Kush, Berry, Hemp, CBD & Landrace. Most cultivars have at least 2-3 of these and some have all. Check it out if you're interested in genetics.
They have found evidence all over central Asia from way back_cannabis/hemp fibers in building materials, burried with a shaman in Northern China, even in an ancient village along what was the shoreline of the Red Sea but thats now underwater.
it is really coming around full circle too...there's an outfit that's making "oak" flooring from hemp fibers thats more durable and looks just as good. ...Levi's is once again using hemp fiber in some of their products.....
cannabis and hemp really are the perfect carbon efficient crop_ they don't need as much water as cotton, tobacco or corn and every bit of the plant can be utilized for a huge variety of different products.
Wish I had 100 acres to grow on!

[FunkyButtLovin]

Sorry but I just had to say Fuck Levi's! 90% of my pants used to be Levi's but I'll never buy anything from them again and I hope they go under.

[JDU]

Why would anyone wear Levi's when the good folk at Wrangler are up n runnin? Far as a cowgirl goes- Wrangler butts drive me nuts!!!