Watering Phenomonem - Is It Just Me?

[Organic357]

Hello all. I am growing in living / super soil under LED's. I am trying to avoid my tendency to over-water. I will check the soil by pushing my finger in to almost the second joint to verify that it is fairly dry. I am currently in veg and water every 2-1/2 days. By this time my girls are slightly droopy. I will water them and for about the next 2 - 4 hours they droop even more and look worse except maybe my Somango XXL. The Girl Scout Cookies looks the worst. Then eventually they all perk up and look great. They also tend to look a little droopy for the first few hours after the lights come on and for the last few hours before they go off. Having said that I have seen this with vegetables we were growing on our deck. Just wondering if I am the only one to experience this behavior with their girls.

[SirSmksAlot]

I have a gorilla mother plant and not even a minute after I water it looks like it's about to die. An hour later it couldn't look happier. Not sure why it happens to certain plants and not others but I don't think it's anything to really worry about as long as they are perking back up after a while.

[D.A.A.S.69]

How old are your plants? What size are your pots?
I use living soil myself an I found the best way to tell when to water is by picking up your pots, when they are bone dry, them water them real good but not to runoff out the bottom of the pots, I use SmartPots and I can tell by feelng the bottom of my pots when the roots are getting enough water, it will be damp.
Don't water to runoff are you will wash away all the good stuff in your soil an your plants will turn yellow way to soon.
When they are bone dry your pots will be very lightweight, after you water them they will be heavy as hell, it takes just a little practice at first ,but you will catch on quickly. Much better than sticking your finger in there, imo.
MJane in soil loves to go from wet to dry, it want hurt a bit if they start drooping-wilting a little before you water them again, the roots are getting plenty of oxygen that way.
GoodLuck
HappyGrowing

[Cali]

D.A.A.S.69 i grow in the same kind of soil, only thing is I always end up overwatering because from all my research podcast and videos on YouTube on growing with living soil they always recommend you keep your soil not wet but moist from top to bottom. They say don’t use the knuckle test or any other make sure you mulch and keep the soil moist closer to wet than dry. Makes sense when you think about it with all the life in the soil you wouldn’t want them drying out. So I always overdue it even though they also say overwatering is the most and major issue with living soils. I have worms in my pots and when I let it dry out they die been a couple time when I walk in the room and there is a massacre on top of my soil. When I look in my soil I have things moving around all kinds of beneficial bugs, plus microbes and microscopic living things that don’t benefit from drying out? What is the soil mix you use? Pot size ?

[D.A.A.S.69]

Cali I use MsDelta soil that I dig up in our hunting woods, with about 30percent perlite added.
I grow autos inside and photos outside, been using this soil for over 50years with no problems except for a few deer an poachers, but the poachers we caught ain't coming back.
When in 2-3-5gallon SmartPots with autos inside many times I've been gone awhile ,a few days anyways and my plants were drooping-wilting , from lack of water, when I got back. Seems to me they are the plants that do the best, at harvest, you certainly don't want them to droop for several days if you can help it, but MJane loves going from wet to dry, even in living soil.
I'm not saying I'm an expert but I don't watch those videos an such, I've been growing long enough to know when they need water ,but KindSoil is good stuff if you use good water, and don't overwater, I wouldn't say it's any better than our native Delta soil though, ive grown several comparison side by side grows using our native soil and KindSoil with autos, and I don't buy KindSoil anymore, but it's damn good for new growers.
Our soil has many ,many RedWigglers in each shovelful, we dig up, never seen I live one at harvest though and didn't expect too.
But I use the hell out of worm compost and molasses teas, when they need watering.
All I ever do is water untill I feel the bottom of the pots getting damp, and stop,and I water real slowly, I don't just pour it in fast like you can do with coco.
You just don't want to water to runoff or your plants will turn yellow to early,
I use tapwater for indoor plants, and Mississippi River water for outdoor grows.
Don't have a clue what the ph of the river water is either, and we've grown some real monster size Oaxacan 10-12 foot tall beautiful Sativas over the years.
I hope maybe that helps you some Cali, another thing with the autos is leave them alone, after you've got them trained,
If I can ever help you anytime, just let me know, and I'll sure try.
HappyGrowing and GoodLuck.

[Cali]

Organic357 my issue is my plants don’t drop at all so I think I’m good then I realize I’m overwatering when my leafs start to turn yellow. I also discovered that when you overwater during veg the plant starts to turn yellow faster in the flowering phase which can’t be good. They always droop when I Foliage spray because I drench the leaves to make sure anything that not supposed to be there goes away.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Mine only droop-wilt when they need a little water. Then they perk back up.
You might want to try letting them dry out a little more before your next watering.
A little wilt-droop ain't gonna hurt a thing, I promise you.That's when the roots get the oxygen they love.
HappyGrowing

[Toker1]

Try to water them before they look like that. The stomata is closing in an attempt to retain all the moisture it can. Each strain will have a different tolerance level to under watering. If you let get too dry for too long, they won’t recover.

https://www.thoughtco.com/plant-stomata-function-4126012

[dilvish]

what are the temps/humidity in the grow room? watering every 2 1/2 days I think they are being overwatered unless the temps and humidity are quite high. Are you using fabric pots or plastic? are they draining properly? Just because it's living/super soil, doesn't necessarily mean good drainage. if they don't dry out properly and don't drain properly then yes they will droop.

[Organic357]

Good point about the drainage dilvish. My temps are around 78℉ and humidity is pretty much in the 30's to 40's.

[Organic357]

Thank you to everyone for the advice. I am jealous of D.A.A.S.69's native soil. Where I live the soil is poor and the pH of water out of the tap is 8+. So if you live here and need to pH your water better get a pH pen like the Apera which allows you to calibrate to 10.01 instead of just 7.0 and 4.0 otherwise your readings above 7.x might not be accurate. To answer D.A.A.S.69' questions I am growing in 7 gallon generic Air Pots with KIS Organics living soil. I use filtered water to remove the chlorine, fluoride and other contaminates. I had posted this yesterday but for some reason my answer was not uploaded/posted. Also I currently only grow photoperiod plants. FWIW my MaXX Yield" 7 gallon equivalent air root pruning flower pots are hard plastic and clean up very easily. Having said that I may move back to generic 'SMART' pots for my next grow in April.

With respect to D.A.A.S.69 statement, "But I use the hell out of worm compost and molasses teas, when they need watering." He reminds of a person who has been growing for 40 years, uses local soil, gets very large yields and potent harvests. I think that the big picture is that those of us who are growing in living / super soil are trailblazers in Cannabis growing. I think that my biggest problem currently was changing to high powered LEDs and living soil at the same time with the possibility that the company I bought seeds from seems to be having issues. I use Mammoth P weekly and Earth Juice Hi-Brix Molasses monthly. Sadly KIS Organics website does not provide a lot of information about growing in their soil so I have been relying on this forum and the advice at the kindsoil.com. Kindsoil is big on water only and even discourage compost tea.

As for my issues with learning when to water I have become better at leaning towards under watering instead of over watering. It is interesting that we see people with almost opposite watering habits both get good results. I believe that living soil / super soil will be the future of Cannabis growing and that growing in living soil results in better effects or 'highs'. Also I will grow multiple varieties at the same time and keep trying new ones. I will be happy when I settle on just 5 or 6 varieties and get good at growing those.

I think our issues are like human health. An individual has a health issue and takes a supplement which works wonder for them because unbeknownst to them they had a shortage of whatever the supplement supplies. Another individual takes the same supplement with no discernible benefits. Likewise there are so many variables that can impact our results, temperature, humidity, pH, water, plant genetics, soil, CO₂ levers, etc. So you can have two individuals growing the same variety under almost the same conditions but get different results. I think the benefit of this forum is that we can try one person's recommendation and if that does not work try another's recommendation until we finally arrive at a reproducible solution that works for us.

[Organic357]

D.A.A.S.69 I am going to try to follow your advice except for the compost teas. From kindsoil.com, "Adding ANYTHING other than water: This happens a lot, growers get impatient and that feel they can "BOOST" the grow or simply don't trust the system. Our system works exactly as we state Adding anything to your water or grow pots can slow and hinder your growth. It can cause low production rates, slow growth, PH swings or even just cause the plant to lock out and die from overfeeding. Our system is designed to be a water only system from veg to harvest, DO NOT ADD ANYTHING other than carbon filtered water to your grow. Patience is key, your plant will grow vigorously and produce proper flowers as long as you allow the soil to work for you."

I do not think this contradicts your use of compost teas and molasses because as wonderful as your MsDelta soil is it probably does not have some of the 'amendments' that are contained in the KindSoil. As I mentioned earlier I purchased my soil from KIS Organics but they don't have any recommendations like kindsoil.com does. If I am disappointed with this first grow of the year I will try watering with some of their compost tea and feeding with molasses. I bet you are like my buddy with 40 years growing experience who can look at a plant and see what it needs and likewise pickup a handful of soil and squeeze it to see if it is good. I am not so gifted. What I can say that should encourage those of us who are growing is that I am having others including some very heavy users tell me how much more potent and nice flower is that is grown our way instead of using mineral salts. What I feel in my subjective experience is that the 'highs' of flower grown in living soil are longer, smoother and have no or very little paranoia and anxiety associated with them.

Last point is I just want to say again how great the people are in this group. I used to participate in other forums where people went into attack or butt hurt mode when you disagreed with or did follow their advice. The great people I have encountered here seem to have the attitude that if something is working for you more power to you. So thank you D.A.A.S.69, Cali, and everyone else who gave me feedback. I really appreciate you.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Organic357 Thank for those kind words, my friend, but I'm no expert at all, never claimed to be, but I'm 69 years old an been growing Jane since I was 16 or 17 years old ,didn't know what we were doing back, and still don't, lol, but it's fun as hell, damn near free smoke, with just a little effort. I just wish we would have had a GWE for advice way back then, it would have saved a few headaches for sure.
Drafted, in 1970, I damn sure didn't join, 18 months in VNam, stayed high as hell over
there, you had to stay high in that pure hell hole.
But everyone has got their own way to grow, no wrong way as long as you get a nice crop in.
I've talked to Phil at KindSoil many a time, 4-5 years ago,and he's proud of his soil, i dont blame him , and he told me it was fine to use teas, just think about it, whats it gonna hurt?
He was just trying to keep it simple for new growers. but I know several good growers on here that didn't have great results with it, don't know why, but it worked fine for me after I started using tapwater and teas, never had a leaf that showed spots, with RO, water spots everywhere,.
I'm with you on the organic part, being the future, but some folks love using chemicals and that's fine too, I ought not say this cause I ain't wanting to get in a pissing contest an anger anyone, but organic just plain tastes better, imho,
HappyGrowing 357, keep it Green, and super Sticky.

[Organic357]

Thank you D.A.A.S.69 for the kind reply. I was raised in Texas where politeness, southern hospitality and helpfulness are very much a part of the culture. I suspect that you have those values as well. We are 6 years apart in age with you getting the head start. Glad I missed that sh*thole of that unnecessary war kind of like Afghanistan. I may brew up some tea based on your conversation with Phil at KindSoil. I have only been growing for 8 years but my current grow is my 11th. My first grows were with FoxFarm soil and nutes. They gave my first and only wine bottle sized top cola. I must admit that I really enjoy medicating with something I grew.

Nice that we have a number of guys our age in the forum. Of course the same government that lied us into wars lied us into the drug war to keep Department of Prohibition agents working after alcohol prohibition ended. I will be glad to see this insane prohibition ended for many good reasons and because I sure would enjoy having an inside and outside grow. I am sure our paths will continue to cross in this forum.

[D.A.A.S.69]

I can tell your a real gentlemen, pot smoker, that's a good thang, we used to go to Willie's 4th of July picnics all the time, well at least 5-6 of them, mostly to see Neil Young, but the Red Headed Stranger is great too.
Austin is also a great music city, very nice folks over there.
I'm kinda jealous of your grow setup, very nice.
Nice talking to you, my friend, have fun and enjoy your medicine.

[D.A.A.S.69]

[QUOTE=D.A.A.S.69;n381719]I can tell your a real gentlemen, pot smoker, that's a good thang, we used to go to Willie's 4th of July picnics all the time, well at least 5-6 of them, mostly to see Neil Young, but the Red Headed Stranger is great too.
Austin is also a great music city, very nice folks over there.
I'm kinda jealous of your grow setup, very nice.
Nice talking to you, my friend, have fun and enjoy your medicine.
Ps, there's plenty of old farts, hippies on here like us, just ask ole Farmall2

[D.A.A.S.69]

Don't know how in the hell that got on there twice, I do know I don't know sh-t, about technical stuff.
Sorry bout that.

[Organic357]

Don't feel bad. I have the same problem. BTW my cousin played harmonica with Willie once when he was performing in Ausin, TX.

[D.A.A.S.69]

I bet he had fun, by the way, i play the harmonica a little bit myself, i should have said i try to play,

[BR2K]

D.A.A.S.69 - Thank you for growing wisdom and ESPECIALLY for your service!!! The lessons we learned from Vietnam made serving A HELL of a lot safer

[D.A.A.S.69]

BR2K That's mighty nice of you, my brother, for those kind words.
I ain't proud of what I did over there, I promise you, even at my age, I still have horrible nightmares, occasionally. But not like I used too, thank the Lord.
Are far as growing, your plants look as good as anybody's. Keep up to the great job, and keep passing it on down to the next generation.
HappyGrowing