Slow growth 1st timer.

[dilvish]

looking at your latest pics and i must say I think yor biggest problem is going to be lighting. 3 Household CFL's and what looks like a fairly cheap LED panel...you can already see signs that there isn't enough light because the seedlings are growing tall meaning they are stretching to get more light.

forget soil, nutes, Ph'd water, temp, humidity and even great strains...none of them mean spit if the plants aren't getting enough full spectrum light. sure, they will grow but they will be tiny and produce poor potency and yields, if at all.

Seedlings don't require a lot of light in the beginning but as the plants mature they need far more than what you have showing on your latest pics.

As far as growing with just PH'd water, unless it's in a super soil it won't grow very big and may not even flower and again there is the light thing.

Full spectrum LIGHT by far is the best food for cannabis plants.

[Lukeb523]

I’m not sure what the definition of tall is but my nodes are very close together. I’m aware they stretched as seedlings and the cause.
Originally that full spectrum 600w LED light was the only thing I had, I took advice and added 3 6500 23w CFLs. They are currently 3 inches away and since I added them the plants have increased productivity massively.
I have a HPS for bloom.
You have outlined your concern for light....what would you recommend?

[dilvish]

The recommendation for the CFL's was likely only intended for seedlings. At that light output you won't get big plants. Remember what we "see" as light is totally different that what plant's "absorb" as light. CFL's like the ones you are using are not full spectrum and it is that spectrum that plants thrive on.

The problem I've seen with (indoor) growers who are just starting out is that they seem to get everything else right except proper lighting. Lighting unfortunately is likely also the biggest expense for an indoor grower.

You will see countless threads where growers learn that mistake the hard way. Investing in a good light system is really the key to successful grows.

Don't feel bad... I did the same thing on my first indoor grow...I got maybe 25 grams out of 4 whole plants!!!...it was pathetic but it was due to lack of sufficient light. i had everything else covered: fabric pots, liquid nutes, PH'd water, controlled environment and super soil.

There are lots of decent light panels on the market. There are lots of cheap ones too. Unfortunately most first timers opt for cost versus efficiency. If you want some good advice, do the research on lights. Bear in mind that most of the stuff you find online in places like Amazon are made poorly and have not been properly safety tested. Safety testing is something I am finding most first time growers tend to ignore.

In my opinion a company that manufactures light panels that takes the time to have their product government tested (UL, CSA or ETL) and PROPERLY certified means they likely have a superior product. To date the only LED manufacturer that I know of that has taken the time to safety test it's product is ViparSpectra and only SELECT models have been certified.

The rest is up to you. Invest in a good light system and you will have good harvests which in turn will eventually pay for the light system...

[SoOrbudgal]

Seems that they are still in seedling stage by the looks of them size of trunk. This appears to be to rushed of a grow by removing leaf topping they don't look ready to me. Sorry but i'm not meaning to " hurt your feelings" everyone beats by their own drummer but rushing it only hurts it.

[Lukeb523]

Thanks for the information.
I payed for a cheap kit knowing the parts weren’t top quality but was assured it would be more than sufficient for 3 plants. (From a grow shop)
Would it do any harm to keep the CFLs going through the veg if my LEDisnt sufficient enough?
When you talk about full spectrum do you recommend the adjustable lights for veg and bloom or full spectrum start to finish?

[dilvish]

cheap lights = poor growth and low yields. full spectrum means just that...full spectrum not just blue light (CFL's). Invest in a decent light panel and you'll have decent crops. I recommend this one for beginners with a limited budget. It's one of very few that have passed rigorous safety testing and has had good results in small grows.

https://www.viparspectra.com/goods.php?id=60

It is likely also available on Amazon

[Lukeb523]

I also feel like my plants are under developed compared to others I’ve seen when being topped. But I took a punt on the basis growth has been good and steady the last two weeks after a terrible start, there is new growth on every node wich tells me the plants are comfortable and capable.
My plants were starting their 7th node and I’ve been told the ideal point to start training is 5-7 nodes. Time will tell.
SoOrbudgal 🤣 I live black and white, I appreciate honesty and I want the best for my plants not me. But thanks for considering my feelings

[stump]

I dont recall seeing what kind of soil you are using. Some soils like ocean forest have everything required for around 3-4 weeks. Some you need to start using nutes sooner.

[dilvish]

Additionally..... kinda boring but this explains why cheap lights and ones that make claims that aren't tested usually end up hurting the grow. Lights are a crucial part of successful grows and bigger yields.

If you want to skip to a more meaningful part, go to time index 34:30 on the video. Dr. Bugbee explains the color spectrums (full spectrum) and thier ranges as to how they apply to cannabis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID9rE5JewVg

Most of these spectrums are listed in viparspectra lights...12 spectrums on the R900W model

[Lukeb523]

I’m not on any particular budget I was just assured by the grow shop that the 600w full spectrum light they gave me would be sufficient for 3 plants.

I always felt the LED light was very dark and didn’t really bring much light to my tent but being a different type of light as you touched on earlier I presumed it would be fine.
I will take a look at your link thanks 👍

[dilvish]

There are so many garbage lights out there, especially LED. The only reason people are moving to LED is because they typically use less power and generate less heat. Unfortunately most people believe that because LED appear brighter to the human eye they must be better for the plants.

Just try to remember that what we "see" isn't an appropriate gauge. Additionally, your local shop sold you that panel to make a profit. if you walked in there saying the reason your plants failed to produce, they in turn have a million reasons why it could have been any other factor in your grow set up.

I would also venture a guess and say that panel hasn't passed state/provincial safety testing and has no UL, CSA or ETL safety certification. That might be a way to get your money back. Selling electrical items that plug in to an electrical outlet have strict guidelines in many states/provinces (North America) and the shop owner may be trying to make a buck illegally.

[Lukeb523]

stump i got a package deal And with it came what they call Terra soil? my ph reader read 7 when I tested it. I water with 6.5 and tiny amount of formulex at moment.

I have updated pics on the topped and FIMd plants. The one I topped looks to be doing really well and I can see the FIMd plant starting to follow suite.
Can anyone tell me what Happens with the 80% chopped leaves on FIMd plant....they are still growing is this normal ? Or do they die off?
thanks

[dilvish]

What the hell is formulex? What's in it? I looked it up online and I couldn't find out what it's made of...considering it isn't even mentioned at all on Grow Weed Easy I'd say change your nute formula to something that is trusted. Seems like the grow shop you bought your gear from is more interested in sales than promoting good growing practices.
You also haven't mentioned your light situation. Like I said in an earlier post...everything else could be perfect but if the lighting isn't full spectrum and high enough output then the plants will be tiny no matter what you do. Cannabis loves light more so than many other plants this is why outdoor yields are typically much higher...because the plant is getting pure sunshine. Investing in a solid light system (and decent nutrients) is key to bigger and healthier plants.

[Lukeb523]

Formulex is very well known and trusted especially in early stages. It’s mainly nitrogen, the good kind.
My light situation is the same, I’m keeping the CFLs in on the basis they are meant to be good for seedlings so why would they not be good for new growth?. I also still have my 600w full spectrum cheap light running, as I said the growth is steady and happy and has been for few weeks so don’t feel the need to adjust anything. However I have purchased a Viparspectra 450 wich I will replace the cheap one with once it arrives.

Can you tell me what to expect from the leaves that I FIMd? Will they die off?

nobody really seems to comment on what the plants actually look like but to me they look healthy and happy.

Also direct sunlight makes complete sense but would you recommend me putting my plants in the sun when it’s out or would taking the plants in and out of their tent effect them?

thanks

[dilvish]

plants may look fine but without proper light they will be small and produce few flowers/buds. in seedling early growth stage it is true they require less light but as they grow they will require a ton more.
I haven't ever FIM'd my plants at that early a growth...no need really.
As far as moving them outdoors that's entirely up to you. given the right conditions outside they will flourish as long as they get at least 8 hours of solid direct sunlight. The bigger problem with outdoor grows is pests, but carefully managed they can be averted.

[Canuck147]

Plants look real good Lukeb523 - if your fimmed plants leaves weren't cut off low enough, they will just grow up looking like half a leaf. Not to worry - if you fimmed properly and cut low enough, they those cut leaves should turn into branches. They won't die off.

As for the sun - use it whenever you can. I do and it's fun taking them out of the tent - you get a better look at them. Just as long as the outside temperature is around the same temperature as your tent. Don't want to shock them.

Good luck growing.

[Lukeb523]

Canuck147 if you look down to bottom of page 1 you can see a picture of when the plant was first FIMd few days ago. Would you say from looking at my recent pic and the leaf growth that I didn’t cut low enough or should I hold out a few more days see what comes through?

[Canuck147]

Not low enough - you can still top it.

[Lukeb523]

Thanks that’s helpful because I did presume the leaves shouldn’t be growing out again but only know if you ask.
dilvish you say you haven’t fimmed that early before because there’s no need....if the plants capable from an earlier age what’s the advantage of waiting longer before FIMing?
thanks

[dilvish]

I guess in your case you're jumping ahead of yourself. Right now you should be focusing on the health and growth of the plants. FIMing assumes you already know what you are doing but as a newb I suggest you just let nature do it's thing and as the plants grow larger, opt to train them instead. Training is easier and there is no way you can shock the plant (unless you bend them way too far). Baby steps and patience and you will get a decent harvest

[Lukeb523]

I can’t really make sense of that other than I shouldn’t be doing it because I’m a newb.
Surely the reason for waiting before training as you say is to have a healthy growing plant first. But if you do train early and the health and growth doesn’t slow down Are you saying there’s still a good chance the plant will have problems in flowering stage?
I’m struggling to understand the advantages of letting a plant put efforts into growth that’s going to be eventually cut off anyway?
ive seen a lot of people train from what they call seedling stage so just curious

[dilvish]

I think what you are doing is trying to force better growth when you appear to lack the knowledge of what to do and what to expect. reading some article and then performing the procedure can work but typically it is for growers who know what they are doing and what to expect. I guess what I am trying to say is if the plants are growing fine, just leave them be and stop trying to force better growth or more growth when you lack the experience to do so. You may end up stunting their growth or killing them if you don't have the proper experience...just relax and carry on.
As far as training the plants the reason many growers do it is because typically cannabis grows like a christmas tree...straight up. Because indoor grows don't have lights that move around the plant like the sun does, most flowers end up on top and flowers near the bottom don't get enough light. Training the plant forces it to grow out more like a bush...wider growth but shorter height means more flowers will get more light and denser as they mature. Buds (flowers) are what you want. Fan leaves can be smoked too but the contain only minor amounts of THC/CBD and are much harsher to consume. Buds are what you want...the more the merrier!!

[OlderNOTwiser]

"I’m struggling to understand the advantages of letting a plant put efforts into growth that’s going to be eventually cut off anyway?"

For plants that may grow for a half of a year before harvest it really isn't much you're chopping. Much more relevant is the root structure that a 6-week plant has vs a 3-week one. There is the real deal. If you have a vigorous plant and a healthy substructure as it were at ~ 5 to 6 weeks the root zone should be filling in and topping or fimming or whatever mad scientist things you (we) try it is better to take it in stride and just keep on keepin' on.