​​​​​​​Yields and Grow Time with LED's and Super Soil / Water Only Soil

[Organic357]

In my grows before my last and current grow I was using a single Sunsystem 315 LEC light inside of a 5' x 5' Gorilla Grow Tent and soils and nutrients from my local grow store. Recently I decided to move to The Green Sunshine Company’s Electric Sky 300 V2 LED lights after reading a lot of positive reviews of their lights and yields and water only soil (aka super soil) from KIS Organics. The idea of a using a water only or super soil was very appealing for the saving of time and money over the long term. All of my seed stock was purchased in the Fall of 2019 from Nirvana that used to be listed as a suggested source on this site but is no longer in the list. Admittedly I changed a lot of variables at once.

I went back today to look at previous grows and found out that they were roughly 3 times larger than my first grow with water only soil and the Green Sunshine Company’s Electric Sky 300 V2 LED lights. I think that part of the problem is with the seeds which seemed to lack vigor. I gave some to a grower of 40 years experience who had the same experience with them. I am currently at week 7 counting from the day I started germinating and my tallest plant is only 6” tall. In another grow with nutes, Fox Farm soil and a 315 LEC light my tallest plant at 7 weeks was 31” tall which is a difference of 25”. I am hoping that the issue is with the seeds and/or that growing with the water only soil needs a little more time. I spent a lot on the lights and the soil. There was someone who said they would split the soil costs with me and then flaked out on me. What I would like to hear is that others are using water only soil and LED’s but especially Green Sunshine Company’s Electric Sky 300 V2 LED lights and have not seen a decline or significant decline in yield.

[SoOrbudgal]

Sounds like you got it all together. I don't have those lights nor soil like you have but I do mix my own.

[Organic357]

Thank you SoOrbudgal. I was planning on getting the Viparspectra's but got 'sold' on some of the features of the Electric Sky 300s. So did you seed any significant decrease in your yields when you moved to the Vapar's from what you were using before?

[SoOrbudgal]

Organic357 these 2 vipars are the only LED I've used in 3 yrs. Started with 1 450 reflector got a 2 then a 3rd. Oldest one I lost the bloom portion of the light during a snow outage lasted 7days last winter. I just use it to veg. garden plants it works real well that way. It's in a 3x3 tent the other 2 full spectrum are in my 4x4 they are simply for this old lady grower LOL. I raise or lower my plants on risers an blocks as needed. There fine, but in the future?

[SoOrbudgal]

[Organic357]

SoOrbudgal those all look very nice. The trunk on the plant in the second photo is really well developed.

[JimmyPapaya]

I have two ES 300's and home made Super Soil (Subcools recipe) and I'm very happy with the lights. When I started a couple of years ago I used KindSoil. Easier for me at the time. The only extra additives I use ithroughout the grows is back strap molasses, Sweet Candy and or Bud Explosion from Greenleaf nutrients. I had a horrible grow season up here in the PNW last year! I finally put up a 8 X 10 shed in my yard during November 2019 and got that damn environment dialed in the way it should be. I've had some recent problems with seeds. Ugh....Right now I have a mom and daughter Gorilla Breath (freebie Humbolt Seeds) in week 8 of flower and a Cannatonic CBD in week 4 of flower and I'm really stoked for this grow season. But I still worry about bud rot. I hate that F'n stuff! Sorry to hear about the person who dissed you. Cheers!

[Organic357]

Hi Jimmy,

It is good to learn that you are happy with your lights. I searched this forum for the Electric Sky 300’s lights and saw that you owned and were happy with them. As for root rot, Botanicare has some nice products. I would look into their Hydroguard. Their Silica Blast and Rhizo Blast are also very nice. These are not OMRI certified if that matters to you. Also they have one slow loading website that can really raise your blood pressure. Thank you for the encouragement.

[gbauto]

Good luck with your grow.
I'm a hydro grower, but one of the common experiences folks using high power led fixtures is an increase in uptake of Ca and Mg. That's the only nute difference I've encountered so all I can offer would be vigilant and adjust when needed.

[Organic357]

Thank you gbauto. I will learn more about offsetting this.

[Farmall]

Organic357 I switched to super soil a few grows ago ....Natures Lining Soil with coco loco. I use diy led lights running about 1600w at the wall of Samsung 301b and Cree photored. Also used FoxFarm and a 315CMH sunsystems hood. had a side by side overflow tent with the 315 running and the only difference has been the finishing time.. it took over 1 month longer to harvest

ive have no difference in either crop so I am very pleased using supersoil in that I do not mix nutrients or measure anything ... I carry up a few 5 gallon buckets of water pH’d to about 6.5-6.8 and pour it in to my 5-7gallon fabric pots. I ve posted some monster bud photos and colas on the site under time to show your grow Several plants produced over 1 pound dried and cured. Variables are obviously, training, defoliation and I do use molasses. Something sounds odd in your current grow . I’m not saying this is the reason but I had 6-8” plants after the 3rd week of CFL’s to start the seeds which I use before the leds

[Organic357]

Yikes did you have any herm?

[Farmall]

No, they were FINALLY cut down about 1 month after ‘due date’. I did have a big durban hermie from a timer that screwed up on a UV-B bulb. It was on for 3 day straight and never shut off. I pulled over a thousand seeds, probably tossed 2000 more that’s how loaded up it was

[Organic357]

Well even though it hermed at least you got some nice seed stock and hopefully from a variety you like. I am still trying different varieties now. Northern Light is my current favorite, then I would list Pure Power Plant and for insomnia Critical CBD. I used to have seeds from a variety, Clever George, that was my favorite. It was developed by a developer who has probably died and his seed stock with him. Currently growing Big Bud, Girl Scout Cookies, Pure Power Plant, Somango XXL and Wonder Woman. Luck of the Irish my Pure Power Plant seems to be the weakest. Our legal limit here is 6 in flower and I am very careful never to exceed that.

[Greenpassion]

Organic357, I am currently using Kindsoil with auto's and photos. I use viparspector 450 led's. I grow indoors in 2 rooms upstairs in my house. My environment is perfect-humidity around 45 to 50%, temps between 75 to 80, circulating fans ect. My autos do fine with kindsoil (in 3 gal cloth pots) and my photos were doing well until a week or so ago. At the moment I have 3 Bruce Banner and 1 wonder woman in 3 gal cloth pots, my plan being to repot them into 7 gal pots in a week or so.
Unfortunately the lower leaves of these photos are yellowing significantly. I called Kindsoil and sent photos. I was told that it couldn't be a nitrogen defiency, (because I'm guessing Phil won't believe his product is anything less than perfect-and I get that...) but I need a solution. I water with my plain water ph"d to 70 (phil strongly feels that using any ph adjustment , even when it's Earth Crystals wiil mess up the soils ability to self adjust, so he said to only put in a few crystals, and a ph of 70 is fine)
That said, this morning I added 1/2 a tablespoon of Neptune's fish emulsion to my gallon of plain water...will this correct things, or perhaps I should use bat guano tea-or, top dress with more Kindsoil?

[Organic357]

The issue here is that our water is over 8 pH. I use Earth Juice Hi-Brix Molasses to pull down pH but only apply that once a month. I am also using Mammoth P weekly. I also grow Northern Light, Pure Power Plant and Wonder Woman among others. I am currently only growing with feminized photoperiod. I do use Earth Juice's pH Down which is 99% citric acid. The person who advised me about my water only soil was Tad Hussey at KIS Organics. He said that I did not have to pH but that I could increase yields by pH'ing saving the soil some work. I am planning on using some of KIS Organics's compost tea once the weather warms up here at the end of the week. BTW you may want to check out my post entitled Size Does Matter, When it Comes for Inline Fans and Filters.

[Farmall]

Based on that leaf yellowing problem during my first uses of living soil, I have been advised it is from overwatering during the veg cycle. This is not simple runoff overwatering, it is an over saturation of water in the soil around the roots of the base. Frankly it was initially hard to comprehend as I never had runoff but by truly limiting to no more than 500ml for 7 gallon grow bags.... my plants did extremely well in several subsequent uses. Not sure what you can do to remediate that after the fact but adding any chemical amendments negates the organic component of the grow.

you’ve got a few advantages in keeping it truly organic. You can pick of leaves and use them in juicer for some substantial health benefits. You might be truly surprised at how this makes you feel. Unless you’re 25. Additionally, no need to flush your crop

[Greenpassion]

Another issue that I'm running into and have been with my photo. Using kind soil all along. The plants droop constantly. It doesn't have anything to do with prior to lights out at all. I've never experienced this when I've used Botanicare nutrients in my grows with photos. I'm going back to my original theory that kind soil is definitely not okay for any grows that are Beyond 60 days to 70 days. And passed grows over the last 2 years using Botanicare nutrients I never had this problem. I'm really frustrated about this as I have spent a lot of money on this so-called super soil.

[Organic357]

Greenpassion, I hear you on the drooping. I am having the same issue with my KIS Organics water only soil. I was going to post to see in anyone else has experienced the following. My plants are very droopy in the morning, kind of like me before my first two cups of coffee. Lights go on at 04.30. By ~10.30 they are looking good and stay that way or get better until ~18.30 - 20.30 (6.30 - 8.30PM) when they start drooping again. I did read on kindsoil.com that you need to be sure that your plants are kept at 65℉ or above. I was not doing this.

[Organic357]

One more point as far as drooping I am reminded of when I was growing vegetables on my deck. They would start drooping at the end of the day, still be drooping in the morning and pick up by mid-morning. This was fairly frequent if I remember correctly. Also checkout the info at http://www.kindsoil.com. The say that additional nutes can cause issues. From their site:

Adding ANYTHING other than water: This happens a lot, growers get impatient and that feel they can "BOOST" the grow or simply don't trust the system. Our system works exactly as we state Adding anything to your water or grow pots can slow and hinder your growth. It can cause low production rates, slow growth, PH swings or even just cause the plant to lock out and die from overfeeding. Our system is designed to be a water only system from veg to harvest, DO NOT ADD ANYTHING other than carbon filtered water to your grow. Patience is key, your plant will grow vigorously and produce proper flowers as long as you allow the soil to work for you.

Q: Can we use chemical regimens or extra bloom boosters when running Kind Soil?

A: No we do not recommend it, everything your plant will require, is fully amended in the soil. adding or using anything other than water can and will generally cause many growth/production issues. Your plants will produce large dense full size colas with nothing more than Kind Soil and water.

Others in the forum seem to be getting good yields with water only-super soil. I think it is just a matter of fine tuning our grows.

[Organic357]

Greenpassion just a FWIW. When giving Earth Juice Hi-Brix Molasses my girls hardly droop except for 2 - 4 hours after being given water with the aforementioned molasses. I have been using 1 Tablespoon of it per gallon of filtered water.

[Greenpassion]

I never over water to the point of runoff. I am in cloth pots. I am super careful about over-saturating the pots. I am almost anally ridiculous about my care with these plants.

[Farmall]

Apparently it’s not hard to overwater...we have visions of water leaking out of the bags but it’s a bit more complex. We use similar systems and when I cut back on water, subsequent crops had no sign of yellowing leaves until harvest. FWIW

[dilvish]

Super soil can be a great way to go but of course there are many other factors involved. Not having to bother with any one factor of a grow means you may lack the effort or the time required to really pay attention to your plants. Remember anything worth doing is worth doing well. Trying to make it less complicated just makes it more complicated!

In terms of your lights all i have to say is those are another example of lights that are "self" certified...they have not undergone proper safety testing and lack the UL, CSA or ETL certification. For a light that is on at least 12 hours per day, It becomes a fire hazard.

Having said that, there are a crap load of shitty lights on the market all of which are trying to get a piece of the market share. There are a lot of different lights but the most important factor is how much full spectrum do they produce? Just because they look awesomely bright when you have them on means spit to cannabis. Cannabis thrives in full spectrum light more so than many other plants this is the main reason they typically produce higher yields when grown outdoors in soil. If you have poor lighting, you get small plants. Period.

[Organic357]

I understand your point about the lights dilvish. Having said that I don't think that "self" certification is necessarily bad. I am aware of foods that are Kosher but the producers don't want to pay what they consider an expensive fee to have them certified as such. What attracted me to my Electric Sky 300's was that they were supposed to be a fuller spectrum and Nebula Haze and several forum users had used them with good results. Unfortunately we live in a time where many people are greedy and dishonest. There are large corporations that have been caught buying safety certifications and reviews on Consumer Reports. My problem was heat issues with HID's including my SunSystem 305 LEC's in a 5' x 5' Gorilla Grow Tent in an upstairs room on the SW corner of my house.

[Farmall]

I’m guessing the safest lights without certification is SUNLIGHT... 😉

[dilvish]

Sunlight...Yup!!
...I know I harp on it but I find it disgusting how many light manufacturers are willing to sacrifice safety in order to make a profit. Some lights may perform fine but any reputable manufacturer will get their product safety tested if they know how to survive in the market long term. Unfortunately now it's become a cutthroat industry and they all know first time growers will jump on inexpensive crap in the hopes that they can grow a commodity that is gaining in popularity the world over.

somebody should pin the cardinal rule on this board "you have to spend money to successfully grow weed, especially when it comes lighting"...except the Sun!!!