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Does too much defoliation make more sugar leaves grow and reduce bud size?

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    #1

    Does too much defoliation make more sugar leaves grow and reduce bud size?

    I've been searching high and low for information on the internet, and y'all know how much crap is out there these days. An explosion of crap.

    I know some species simply have more sugar leaves, which other species develop large buds with few sugar leaves.

    I'm specifically wondering if the removal of too many fan leaves makes more sugar leaves grow. Enquiring minds want to know...
    Anyone can grow schwag. If you want to grow top shelf bud, study hard: https://www.growweedeasy.com

    Growing since July 21, 2016; pothead since 1967
    2 BCNL Roommate hydroponic grow boxes w/ 400w COB LEDs, Future Harvest nutes
    Grow # 18, Aug. 2023: Anesia Seeds: Imperium X, Future 1, Sleepy Joe, Slurricane
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    #2
    Good question. Subbed to hear everyone's thoughts. I feel that too much defoliation can impact the plant but not enough can also impact the plant when growing indoors. Now specifically growing more sugar leaves that is not something i ever considered but it kinda makes sense. If the plant is not getting enough light absorption because of lack of fan leaves maybe it could grow more sugar leaves to compensate when it reaches flower stage? This is just speculation but i would love to hear other ideas!

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      #3
      Alltatup, i have come to the conclusion that removing too many Fan leaves in the vegging stage reducess bud size. I will see when my current grow is ready for harvest. I intentionally left a lot more leaves on my plants then normally.
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      • alltatup
        #3.1
        alltatup commented
        10-24-2019, 01:07 PM
        Editing a comment
        Well, I don't remove hardly any leaves in the veg stage; I save it all for flower.
      #4
      The sugar leaves will obviously grow if they receive extra light from defoilage. But only if there is growing spectrum why in flowering we reduce the photosynthesis par to red, bloom not veg.

      Comment

      • SoOrbudgal
        #4.1
        SoOrbudgal commented
        10-24-2019, 02:07 PM
        Editing a comment
        Interesting Sww good question. Does it go into the main body of the plant down to roots as if changing to dormancy?
      #5
      I always thought sugar leaves were just genetic. But I'll hang in to see the opinions . I know from growing photos that removing a lot of bud sites make the buds denser but sometimes they kinda get away and I'm reluctant to cut off actual flowers. I have one now well maybe two now that went to stretching more than expected. Anyhow rambling on. Have a great grow !!
      Focus and relativity.
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      • SoOrbudgal
        #5.1
        SoOrbudgal commented
        10-24-2019, 02:04 PM
        Editing a comment
        Very true Eliot I've done that with one right now, yes her bud stalks are gonna be a cluster growing her out. Rambling you are not see my post LOL. I did a bad bad thang!
      #6
      Hello all I enjoy this topic it's close to my grow i'm doing now. I've got 4 fem. photo's that are 6wks old. I generally defoliate as necessary in veg. and flower. Necessary meaning I remove very large fans and leave just a smidge of leaf stem I do not ever cut to the main branch cleanly, I always leave some tiny leaf stalk next to the small bud sites I want to keep. OK here's where i'm at they been growing very well under my 2 viper 450 LED at approx. 30" from tops. They are short flat compact plants very very tight nodes.
      So I started to remove leaves more on just one plant not so much from the others but just one trying to see what she does. What I have right now on her is a bouquet of tightly clustered bud sites. So for my thoughts on removing all the large fans on her only produced a self protection mode to cover her bud sites with more leaves and cluster them together. I WON'T DO THIS TO ANOTHER PLANT I DO NOT RECOMEND IT. I'm hands off with that one till I put them in 12/12 let her stretch cause she is probley stunted now.
      I do remove large leaves during flowering in the tent, but will pay more attention to the sugar leaves. I think many strains like WW will produce more resin, I think the strains of GG do also have more crystals on their sugar leaves. I've got more indica strains growing in the tent. They are cookie and kush strains so i'll keep and eye on the development of sugar. ATU thanks for interesting topic i'd love to hear more about other growers thoughts.
      Smoke Ganja create Peace Respect Nature don't trash the Planet

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        #7
        Hmmmm. I dont heavily defoliate. I just remove any leaves blocking light or wind. Maybe I'll have a back to back comparison to see myself. Interesting question. I can ask our lead grower at the farm and see if he knows.
        You may win the race, but you pass all the best things in life on the way.

        Comment

          #8
          The truth is that nobody knows for sure. I mean, the very premise that defoliation affects the bud structure/size is hotly debated.
          That disclaimer having been said, I tend to think it’s genetics mostly. I think different strains have different fan to sugar to bud ratios, and that’s probably the largest factor. But I could be brilliantly wrong lol!
          Gorilla 3x3
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          • Spidermite
            #8.1
            Spidermite commented
            10-24-2019, 02:30 PM
            Editing a comment
            Big Bud from I think Nirvana has so few fan leaves you never have to defoliate. And those plants can grow some massive weight.
          • s62
            #8.2
            s62 commented
            10-24-2019, 07:51 PM
            Editing a comment
            Adding that to my queue!
          #9
          Some of the defoliation techniques I've seen like GML uses on his grows are the result of dialing the strain/room/lighting/nutes mix to perfection so that the plants are already in thumper mode and explode with new growth. I've found that defo- is very strain dependent so it just depends...
          WHAT???
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          • Mr.furley
            #9.1
            Mr.furley commented
            10-24-2019, 04:41 PM
            Editing a comment
            I have found this true, I have also found that it is also beneficial/harmful depending on environment.
          #10
          I really appreciate all the comments so far. I'll be growing a few of the same strains on my upcoming grow, so I can experiment and maybe take fewer leaves. What I need to do is grow fewer colas that get much larger..., that each has her own space...
          Anyone can grow schwag. If you want to grow top shelf bud, study hard: https://www.growweedeasy.com

          Growing since July 21, 2016; pothead since 1967
          2 BCNL Roommate hydroponic grow boxes w/ 400w COB LEDs, Future Harvest nutes
          Grow # 18, Aug. 2023: Anesia Seeds: Imperium X, Future 1, Sleepy Joe, Slurricane

          Comment

          • 9fingerleafs
            #10.1
            9fingerleafs commented
            10-24-2019, 06:32 PM
            Editing a comment
            yeah i think you have to try it out on every strain and see how it reacts, ive done this experiment with the only strain ive saved over several years and have grown inside and outside, small and big, nutrients no nutrients, defoliated and not. in my particular case any real defoliation in flowering will have a negative impact on the bud and cola size, i do a bit of pruning at the bottom but nothing else. the only way the plant really gets into making lots of sugar leaves (this and many other strains ive tried) its when it foxtails due to too much heat, i think we all saw a lot of that this summer. very interesting question, some food for thought
          #11
          Alltatup, You don't have to grow fewer colas. Just keep them staked so they don't grow back together.
          1 Photo
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          • SoOrbudgal
            #11.1
            SoOrbudgal commented
            10-24-2019, 04:08 PM
            Editing a comment
            How does that work for hydro though?
          • alltatup
            #11.2
            alltatup commented
            10-25-2019, 02:12 AM
            Editing a comment
            kingfish I have to grow fewer colas. They are all staked.
          #12
          This is something I am actually working through, great question ATU.... in a test prior, defoliation was consistent in flower and bud development was good but I have seen better when the defoliation was minimal. The affect to sugar leaves seems to have been related to bud girth and length but that may be expected based on size alone such as bigger is more and smaller bud was less. Next time I will need to not defoliate at all and just tie and spread the branches and see if the buds develop as the first grow did by not knowing about defoliation nor doing it. The other LST method may have been more ideal. I had had some colas the size of kitchen fire extinguishers with topping alone in unrestricted indoor spaces. I did post a picture of that so I’ll try to find it again.
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            #13
            No comment from me on this subject as i believe you are all referring to photos.

            Me I grow autoflowers and I start defoliating at about 2 weeks and continue throughout my grow - taking off leaves when they need to be removed.

            Very interesting concept.
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            • Canuck147
              #13.5
              Canuck147 commented
              10-25-2019, 03:24 PM
              Editing a comment
              I didn't think you were arguing with me spidermite
            • Tersky
              #13.6
              Tersky commented
              10-25-2019, 07:08 PM
              Editing a comment
              I'll argue with you! Wait, what are we talking about? lol
            • Spidermite
              #13.7
              Spidermite commented
              10-26-2019, 08:28 AM
              Editing a comment
              Canuck147 I know you weren't arguing. I'm just pointing out that you have a great way of growing autos. It just impresses the hell out of me how you can grow in such small pots. Sorry if I sounded argumentative. God knows I'll never argue with someone else who knows how to grow in a different way.

              D.A.A.S.69 I have grown some very nice autos. I have one now that will push 10 ounces easy. I was just saying that the size of mine I believe relates directly to pot size. This run I ran 3 autos in 3 gallon pots and 1 in a 10 gallon pot. The 3 from the smaller pots finished almost a month earlier (I think because in the big pot it spent more time growing roots.) They also only averaged 40 to 80 grams max each. The bigger one started slow but once it filled the pot with root it grew to 6 feet tall it.

              Anyways all I really have on the subject of defoliating is I only remove certain leaves on most strains. I let each plant decided.
              Last edited by Spidermite; 10-26-2019, 08:32 AM.
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