SOIL I copied my message to Nebula to here in case Nebula is too busy to respond.

[growsomebuds]

Greetings Nebula. I only contact you as a last resort, as I'm sure you're busy. I've made at least 3 posts since mid May in an effort to try and understand why my plants are all so stunted. I've received no reasonable explanations as to my dilemma, thus far. These Pineapple Express plants began life in early April. The tallest is only 20" tall. The two shortest are 12" tall. I put them into 12/12 flower ~ 2 weeks ago in the hopes I'd get that flower stretch. I see it happening on a stunted growth scale. I just read about Nitrogen deficiency. I didn't consider it until minute's ago. I watered and removed some yellow and dying leaves on all plants two days ago. These were on the lower nodes of all plants. I took these pics 30 minute's ago and freaked out at the number of yellow leaves on the tallest plant! The 16" plant developed more yellow leaves in the same two day period. I don't get why this is happening. I use GH's Flora Trio in well water(admittedly, I have hard water). I also use a cheap pen to pH my water every time. See the leaves on the plate? Those came off the 20" plant, tonight. Can simple Nitrogen deficiency be the sole cause of my abysmal plant growth. I'm at my wits end. I have good lighting(may even have light burn issues), good air exchanges, temps are in the low to mid '80's during the day. I really hope you can take some time to access my problem. Ask me all the followup questions you require. Thank you so much for reading. If you haven't the time or inclination to respond, could you move my post to the regular forum area? This is it for this year's grow. Whatever yield I get from these in a few more months is all I'll have to smoke until next year's harvest. Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Thanks for reading

[growsomebuds]

Does this look like nitrogen deficiency as the cause of stunted growth?

[MeestaFeesha]

Well, from reading your other post in July, it seems you don't believe it's a lighting issue as others suggested.

Have you been feeding regularly? At what dose per gallon? You mentioned having 'hard well water', I'm not sure as I'm a lucky duck near a reservoir, do you need to treat it beyond pH? Similar to someone treating their tap water that has chloramine (Filtered and then reverse osmosis).

The times you had up/repotted to change the soil, was there a noticeable root structure? Deficiencies and nutrient lockout can look similar.

Being that you've had successful grows under what I believe are the same conditions, are you sure it's not the genetics?

*Edit*: I could only find your other "stunted growth" topic from July, did you figure out your perlite ratio?

[PRIMO]

Hey GSB, Sorry you're having problems with your grow that sucks. There are a lot of reasons this could happen do you water to runoff ?, ever flushed ? ever check run off for Ph? ever think about using a premium soil. Maybe a new ph pen is in order. Do you wait to water/feed til they're somewhat dry? Have you ever added a cal/mag product? You just now read about N. deficiencies? You gotta do your homework dude, G.W.E. has a vast amount of info, the answers are there you just gotta find them. Those plastic buckets don't look like fiber pots.

[growsomebuds]

Well, from reading your other post in July, it seems you don't believe it's a lighting issue as others suggested.

Have you been feeding regularly? At what dose per gallon? You mentioned having 'hard well water', I'm not sure as I'm a lucky duck near a reservoir, do you need to treat it beyond pH? Similar to someone treating their tap water that has chloramine (Filtered and then reverse osmosis).

The times you had up/repotted to change the soil, was there a noticeable root structure? Deficiencies and nutrient lockout can look similar.

Being that you've had successful grows under what I believe are the same conditions, are you sure it's not the genetics?

Thanks for responding, Meesta....No, it isn't a lighting issue. If it was, my plants would be stretching. As it is, the nodes are so close to each other, it hard to tell them apart. However, to test Kingfish's notion, I tossed in my 2nd LED light for good measure. It didn't change anything. I do feed regularly at 5ml/gal. Then I have to lower pH to around 6.0. I came across a GH product I didn't know existed. It's called FloraGro for hardwater. If this product exists, I then assumed that for people that have hardwater problems, then unbeknownst to me before, this must be a problem. So, I order that product, and it is on its way.

Looking at the roots was the 1st thing I did when up/repotting. Honestly, Meesta, I'm not qualified to assess whether my roots were looking OK or not. But, I've always thought it could be a root issue. Look at those two plant pics. Those are from last year's grow. The one in the white bucket is ~8 days younger. Also, as these two plants were chugging along, I noticed the plant in the org bucket was easily getting surpassed by the white bucket. The org bucket plant was taking days longer to lighten up before I would water again. This is where I learned about Perlite and drainage. So, I bought some, and repotted to improve drainage and oxygen penetration. However, the plant never got any bigger than what you see. I didnt even bother to harvest the little popcorn buds. I did take pics of the root system after an autopsy on the org bucket plant, and looked at the roots after harvest on the white bucket plant. All I'm qualified to say is that the root system on both seemed to look the same. The white bucket plant was my 1st manifold grow, and I think it came out OK.

Both plants in those pics were treated the same, and were the same strain, so I figured I had root problems of some kind. Now I'm beginning to think my problem with my current grow, since all plants are stunted, is either a root problem still or maybe my pH pen is lying to me, b/c I using the GH feeding chart for their Flora Trio. I have ordered a new pH pen with TDS capabilities. I plan to hang all the plants up outside and flush the shit out of them.

As to the genetics, my inexperience(this is only my 3rd grow) thought this was the problem. So I contacted AMS to tell them my concerns, and they said they haven't received any other complaints for this strain and therefore could not send me replacement seeds. They did give me a code for 15% off next order, though.

[MeestaFeesha]

That's interesting, to say the least.

I employed Google as my search partner, with the idea that the well water could be the culprit. Looking things up with some answers, but nothing specific. I ended with "soil bacteria hard well water plants" after some refinement.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/water-iron-okay-use-plants-68612.html

Although, it does not look like an iron problem. Water/Soil/Nutrients, 🤔...

[growsomebuds]

Hey GSB, Sorry you're having problems with your grow that sucks. There are a lot of reasons this could happen do you water to runoff ?, ever flushed ? ever check run off for Ph? ever think about using a premium soil. Maybe a new ph pen is in order. Do you wait to water/feed til they're somewhat dry? Have you ever added a cal/mag product? You just now read about N. deficiencies? You gotta do your homework dude, G.W.E. has a vast amount of info, the answers are there you just gotta find them. Those plastic buckets don't look like fiber pots.

Thanks for responding, PRIMO. I'll answer your questions in the order they are asked. There's little to no runoff when I water. Never flushed. I took soil samples from each plant and added pHed distilled water to the 4 cups with soil. After testing their pH with my cheap pH pen, it appeared 2 plants where high 7's and the other 2 were OK, it seemed.

I feel my soil is just fine. I even switched from organic soil to this potting soil I'm using right now. I just order a new pen that also tests TDS, thinking that my pen is lying to me. lol I use the "pick it up and see how much it weighs" method before watering. I only use cal/mag when I 1st watered them with distilled water when they were wee little ones. Then I switch over to my well water; then I stop using it b/c I have hard ass water. That's why I also have on order a product I just learned about called GH Flora Micro for hardwater. I did read about leaf problems last year, but was only seeing yellow leaves recently. I am aware of all the great info on this site and love it so much. I still used my 2 buckets from last grow to keep my plants scrunched together, closer, to keep them under the lights better. The other 2 are fabric bags that are new to me this year.

I never meant to raise 4 plants at once. But when I saw that my seeds' sprouts weren't getting any longer after another 24 hours of germination, I though I wetted the towel they were in too much, and perhaps killed them. Being a noob, and not sure if my notion was true or not, I still planted them anyway. Sure as shit, they sprouted! lol

[Farmall]

While it does mimic nitrogen deficiency... you may have more of a ph problem than you think. I would try to get a runoff water ph just to be sure. By eliminating the basic problems, you may be able to create a better flowchart to lead you towards a solution

[growsomebuds]

While it does mimic nitrogen deficiency... you may have more of a ph problem than you think. I would try to get a runoff water ph just to be sure. By eliminating the basic problems, you may be able to create a better flowchart to lead you towards a solution

I will pH test the run off on all 4 plants. Are you suggesting my nitrogen deficiency is caused by a pH problem? Because I tend to agree that that's a distinct possibility. I've ordered a new pH/TDS pen in case my current pen is lying to me. lol

[Mr.furley]

Have you calibrated the one you have lately?

[Farmall]

ah ! THERE YOU GO.... I finally bought the blue lab pen. its is nearly automatic calibration just by pressing a button and dipping into the known pH value solution. I tested my $10.00 pen and it was off by .3 not a lot unless your looking a 7.0 versus 7.3 or worse

[growsomebuds]

This is a pic of the leaves that came off one of the plants. Do those brown tips on the top leaves appear to be light burn?

[growsomebuds]

@Mr Furley, I don't think I have the means to.

[Mr.furley]

If you aren't calibrating then your meter is probably off and you have most likely been watering at the right/wrong ph for a bit now.
you need to get calibration solution and check not only your old meter but your new meters as well. They make solution for ph and Tds meters and it is necessary to do this from time to time, I check mine ever water which is twice a week! in fact the pen stays in the solution and I change it every month.

[Mr.furley]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F233208356989

[Mr.furley]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F122070138197

[growsomebuds]

@Mr Furley, I don't think I have the means to.

Yup; watching youtube videos now.

[growsomebuds]

I was thinking that if my pen is causing my pHed water to be off b/c of a calibration problem, wouldn't my plant be all kinds of screwed up? I mean, wouldn't I have all kinds of nutrient deficiencies besides what looks like just nitrogen deficiency?

[Mr.furley]

Improper PH is the number one cause of deficiencies /excessive nutrient problem and root problems.
If you don't rule it out as the culprit you can chase your tail with no resolution, as you have been doing. pens can work for a month or two then poof! They Need calibration one day. If your using a cheap pen, it will crap out at some point so buying a pen with a replaceable tip is wise.

It looks like a nitrogen deficiency but with the brown tips I'd also say zinc deficiency, looks like your pots are dry as well, how often do you water? To a little runoff evertime? No matter what I think it could be if you don't know whether you're pen is working properly none of that information or what you do will help.

Anytime there is a nutrient problem with a cannabis plant,
PH is the first thing to rule out.

[growsomebuds]

I forgot I had two pH powder packets from a pHing kit. Gonna buy some distilled water tomorrow for calibration. Also have a pH pen that will measure TDS,as well, on order. I have little to no run off from any of my containers. Is that a major oversight?

[Farmall]

Im sure there will be an interest to see how your pH meter is reacting to the calibration

[Farmall]

Because the plants have the best use of nutrients between ranges of pH... it is extremely important to keep their environment within that range or they will not be able to take in the elements of your nutrients with ease. If your car ran best at 40 miles per hour and you drove it at 70mph, you would not take advantage of the best use of fuel, tires and other components of the vehicle. However at 40, its smooth sailing.

While not a great analogy, it should give you an idea that you may be providing all you need it the soil but you pH is preventing the plant from accessing it properly. there are a load of visual aids on line that can help to illustrate this..type in "nutrient lockout chart"

[Bengfan]

I agree ph 1st. you do need to water to runoff (20% or so). And without these and other basics you are asking for trouble. I would however also like to add that although I have not used a Viparspectra, Some led's can limit plant stretch. I have absolutely noticed a difference in stretch since I started using an HLG led qb.