Interested in LEDs

[Spellbound]

Initially I was planning on going with 400-600 watt HPS for a basic 4x4 tent but I must admit LED are really intriguing.

Its funny because my wife and I were doing some landscaping and adding lighting and we were talking about how amazing the LED technology is getting for yard decoration and where it could possibly go- This was before we were ever considering indoor growing.

So yeah. LED's. I like them in general and TBH I never imagined they could be used with any success to flower cannabis... But evidently they can.

So I was looking at this https://californialightworks.com/col...olarxtreme-250 and thinking that if it could handle flowering 1-2 smaller clones during the first grow , I could add another and that should give decent coverage to my 4x4 area for 4 plants and run me a total of about $500 in lighting (but not all at once) - Or I could get a HPS setup now for around $200 and not have to wait to do a larger grow.

I saw that this site recommends https://www.amazon.com/VIPARSPECTRA-...3a5efb29f035bc and this is also something that could be an option but will this really be the equivalent of a 400-600 watt HPS?

Anyhow, what do you guys think? I'm torn and pretty well understand what the supposed pros and cons of both would be but having never had personal experience with them I'm not sure if I should go with the old but established HPS and just pay a bigger bill and deal with heat issues.

[alltatup]

Hi Spellbound, I switched my two ballasts from MH/HPS bulbs to this LED ballast: https://www.bcnorthernlights.com/led-lights/

I'm super-satisfied for a number of reasons.
First, the thought of not having to change a bulb for 13 years is wonderful!
Second, Not having to change out the MH and HPS is a plus, too.
Third, my grow room is so much cooler.
Fourth, my electric bill is down: I can run two grow boxes with LED with half the price and far less heat than the HID bulbs.
Fifth, the girls seem to be loving LED lights: I can definitely see my buds getting fatter now, but I also recently switched my nute brand, and I definitely think that has something to do with bud size as well. That's my 3 cents' worth!

[Toker1]

A watt is a watt is a watt. It is a measurement of energy in an amount of time. It can be directly converted into BTU (Aka heat).
The myth about LED being cheaper to run or less heat input doesn’t hold water with the cheaper LED lights mentioned. They are not as efficient is HID is. Plus the air cooling technology in HID is much more efficient that LED heat sink technology is.
If you really want the efficiency of converting electricity into light, go with a quantum board LED grow light. Only issue is you will still be dealing with heat.
If you want efficiency plus superior cooling technology, go with an air cooled HID light.
Don't be fooled into purchasing a cheap LED thinking you are saving anything (heat or electricity). The industry is full of hype.
Best way to judge a light is to compare the micro moles per joule rating.
If the rating is under 1.5 micro moles per joule. (which I believe the lights you mentioned were) then all ideas of heat and saving electricity go out the door. Look for lights that produce up to or over 2 micro moles per joule. That is the only proper way to judge if you are purchasing a truly efficient grow light.

[alltatup]

I agree: cheap LEDs aren't worth spit.

[Spellbound]

A watt is a watt is a watt. It is a measurement of energy in an amount of time. It can be directly converted into BTU (Aka heat).
The myth about LED being cheaper to run or less heat input doesn’t hold water with the cheaper LED lights mentioned. They are not as efficient is HID is. Plus the air cooling technology in HID is much more efficient that LED heat sink technology is.
If you really want the efficiency of light, go with a quantum board LED grow light. Only issue is you will still be dealing with heat.
If you want efficiency plus superior cooling technology, go with an air cooled HID light.
Don't be fooled into purchasing a cheap LED thinking you are saving anything (heat or electricity). The industry is full of hype.
Best way to judge a light is to compare the joules per second rating.
If the rating is under 1.5 joules per sec. (which I believe the lights you mentioned were) then all ideas of heat and saving electricity go out the door. Look for lights that produce up to or over 2 joules per second. That’s how you know you are purchasing a truly efficient light.

Do you think air cooled hps will run too hot for a 4x4 tent? I was hoping to set up 2 4x4 tents (roughly 6 foot high) and a short (4 foot high) 2x4 box. That would leave me at having to either do a bigger tent or figure out a cost effective means of cooling. I'll be doing this in a climate controlled basement to begin with but the tent would nullify that.

Sadly, I think you're correct. I dont want you to be though- There something about LED's that I really like. Maybe the tech just isnt there yet- But I'm looking at bang for the buck not only in terms of what I have to spend but in what I'll be able to produce.

[Toker1]

Most commercial growers go with double ended bulb technology using HID. The quantum boards are decent, but costly.
Depending on your ambient temps, yes...it’s doable. I run air cooled HID in my 4x4 and I am able to keep my temps around upper 70’s in the summer and upper 60’s in winter. The weather conditions where I live allow me to operate with no AC system. So I am only cooling with ambient air.

[az2000]

Spellbound, CMH will run cooler than HPS. You can get CMH setups with remote ballasts. That will keep some of the heat out of the tent. (Original CMH fixtures had integrated ballasts. I didn't get into it until the remote ballasts were available.). There are also 2-3 reflectors for air-cooling. I havent' use one because I think the added glass would absorb light more than the heat reduction. CMH really isn't that hot, especially with the ballast removed. It runs 35w/sq ft. A LEC 315 covers a 3x3 space. If you're in a 4x4, you'll need to supplement around the periphery of the tent with a 4-foot 1-tube T5HO fixture on each side. (T5HO needs to run about 40w/sq ft). You could use household LED lightbulbs for supplmental lighting too. I do that. It's a bit tedious to rig up the sockets.

[Spellbound]

Thanks man - I appreciate it.

If you dont mind one more question, what do you think about this? https://growershouse.com/4-x-4-premi...e-package-400w - Does that seem like a decent setup? I'm unsure if I should go 400 or 600 watts but if I go 400 and decide its not enough I can always use that with a Metal halite for vegging and buy a bigger one for flowering.

I really dont want to spend $700 but that setup seems to have everything I am going to need for the flowering tent.

Once again, I appreciate your time.

[Toker1]

You can get these items for much less if you create your own package.
You can get a ballast that is adjustable. Will do 400w, 600w, or 1000w. This is your best option. The ballast in the package only dims at 50% or 75%. So it’s not as versatile and compatible.
Here is a used one like I am talking about for example.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solis-Tek-STK-1277-1000W-MH-HPS-Digital-Ballast/273803465650?hash=item3fbff553b2:g:ptUAAOSwDXFcsB81

[az2000]

I used LED for a while (expensive fixtures, cheap; household lightbulbs). They definitely grow. I did some good things with them. I got fantastic results using household LED lightbulbs surrounding a plant at 22w/sq ft. Dense buds. 1g per watt.

But... I wasn't happy with the finished quality. Not frosty. Not sticky. It was dry like tobacco. Not stinky. It wasn't bad. It was potent. I was happy with the results.

But, just not top-shelf. I think T5HO at 40w/sq ft (45 in late flower) does better for short grow spaces. CMH at 35w/sq ft for tall grows. I think it has something to do with the UV. LED doesn't produce any (or much).

The real thing I didn't like about LED is that the vibe was bad. Lots of hype, and predatory sellers. Many people buy into it and immediately stop being objective. It turns into evangelizing at all costs. People say "I love my light" -- but they say that even if they're getting airy buds. Or, if they're running 80w/sq ft (which is more than HPS!). I felt like you can't trust *anything* related to LED.

I haven't looked into these things for 3-4 years. I feel better for it too! (I wasted so much time trying to navigate the cheerleading and flim-flam.). Maybe things have gotten better. COB was just starting to be a thing when I disassociated from the scene. It would be nice if things got better. I don't want LED to be bad. But, it was *tiring* to me. People were running more w/sq ft than traditional lights. Nobody asked *why*. People just wanted to be involved in "high tech" I guess.

[Spellbound]

I used LED for a while (expensive fixtures, cheap; household lightbulbs). They definitely grow. I did some good things with them. I got fantastic results using household LED lightbulbs surrounding a plant at 22w/sq ft. Dense buds. 1g per watt.

But... I wasn't happy with the finished quality. Not frosty. Not sticky. It was dry like tobacco. Not stinky. It wasn't bad. It was potent. I was happy with the results.

But, just not top-shelf. I think T5HO at 40w/sq ft (45 in late flower) does better for short grow spaces. CMH at 35w/sq ft for tall grows. I think it has something to do with the UV. LED doesn't produce any (or much).

The real thing I didn't like about LED is that the vibe was bad. Lots of hype, and predatory sellers. Many people buy into it and immediately stop being objective. It turns into evangelizing at all costs. People say "I love my light" -- but they say that even if they're getting airy buds. Or, if they're running 80w/sq ft (which is more than HPS!). I felt like you can't trust *anything* related to LED.

I haven't looked into these things for 3-4 years. I feel better for it too! (I wasted so much time trying to navigate the cheerleading and flim-flam.). Maybe things have gotten better. COB was just starting to be a thing when I disassociated from the scene. It would be nice if things got better. I don't want LED to be bad. But, it was *tiring* to me. People were running more w/sq ft than traditional lights. Nobody asked *why*. People just wanted to be involved in "high tech" I guess.

In all honesty that one of the reasons I want LEDs to be viable. There a 'cool' factor to them... Like a sci-fi sleekness as opposed to street light lamp hahahaha.

But yeah- AS much as I want to love them I also want to stick with whats going to work best even if it isnt quite as cool.

I would bet that technology advances LED lighting to the point where it will match the hype at some point though.

[az2000]

As long as you know what you're getting into. That's what bothered me about the whole LED thing. People would just read other people saying "I love my LED, it works perfect" and not question what that means. When TopLED/Mars was on 420 Mag (smokesara), people were posting photos of airy buds and going gaga about how wonderful the lights are. If anyone suggested Mars was overstating the coverage area, and the bus would be denser with more w/sq ft, they risked being banned. Then there were people saying they were going to get the 1000w model. If anyone asked why they were using LED (for 60w/sq ft) when they could run CMH at almost half that... risk being banned.

This is a tough issue. Growing is fun. People want to have fun. Who cares if someone's having fun with airy buds, or a "community" centered on a particular brand, or inefficient lighting. If they're happy with their results, and having fun, etc. Who's business is it other than their own?

But, then someone would ask a question like yous. And, when these specifics (objectivity) come out, people get their feelings hurt.

Don't get swept up in the evangelism. Keep a skeptical mind. Question the hype (secret-sauce spectrums, etc.).

It might be a good idea to buy an LED *and* a traditional light. It doesn't have to be either/or. Play with household LED lightbulbs. You can dabble in it without becoming a True Believer. Form your own opinions. It's good to have some alternate fixtures. If a fixture goes out, you have something else to use just to keep the plants going. You can use your less favorite fixture in seedling/veg.

Area-51 LED (selling on the bigcartel domain) had a good reputation a few years ago. The guy was straight up about things, discloses the exact diodes he uses (the bin numbers). I have some of his fixtures. But, I still like T5HO better for shorter spaces, CMH for taller.

[Smokesteve]

I do not have the funds for a light like the link below. I use a Solistek 600w digital/dimmable hps/mh with the 660w Solistek boost. If I could upgrade to an LED for my space i would go with this.

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/products/hlg-550-v2-rspec

[Farmall]

I’ve never been afraid of experimentation and I have 5 of the viparspectra type purple leds’ of wattages from 200 - 500w at the wall. I have used 315LEC and 1000w HPS , those with ventilation and now trying DIY led strips from Pacific Light Concepts. It is a home build but clearly demonstrated on YouTube under Photoboost by GreenGenesGarden. If its’ Not too late, check out this video. I had to wait over 5 months for the opportunity to order these things but I can say currently, it really seems worth the wait. Heat not an issue temps are 77 degrees F. with ac infinity t6 fan

[HappyDaze]

I've got a California Lightworks Solar System 275...it's basically a dimmable version of the light you were looking at for double the money. If you can manage cooling and ventilation, the HIDs are the way to go. If I end up moving from the house I'm in, back into a condo, I'm certain I can keep running the LED without heat concerns. I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure my HPS running at 400W would generate a huge amount of unmanageable heat in my circumstance.

This Blue Dream grew under the 275... what are your grow goals?

[Spellbound]

My overall goal is to have 4 plants harvesting every cycle- Hoping for 1/2 LB+- I really wanted to do 4 different strains perpetually.

I was initially thinking of having 2 4x4 tents for flowering (or 1 4x4 and 1 4x2) and a veg tent/box.

My situation is that I had wanted to start this off as cheaply as possibly and build up over the course of 6 months or so but the more I am looking into things I'm thinking of doing things different. Now I'm thinking of just getting 1 tent for veg and converting a section of my basement to fit 1000 watt HPS for flowering. Right now I believe thats going to be my best bet even though it was something I wanted to avoid... Its going to completely fix any sort of heat issues,and give me more than enough light .

I really was hoping I could have used tents for everything since it would save me a ton of work that I really dont to do want in setting up a grow room- but in the long run I think itll be worth the effort.

[Farmall]

Spellbound funny thing is I did the opposite. Had a space in the warehouse on 2nd level and used it. By the 3-4 week of flower the aromas permeated the building but my venting was only out of the room. Switched to two tents now and outdoor venting. The hardest part for me was bending below the low hanging lights to train and water within the confines of the tent space. You’ve heard the saying “ bull in a china shop”. Oh, did you say cheaply as possible?

[Spellbound]

Hahahah- Yeah cheaply as possible is best.

I'm prepared to spend 6-$700 now and build up though.

I ordered a 300 watt (300 actual watt) Cob LED for vegging and a 4x4 tent. I figured since I'm veggging anyhow I will just take my girls outside and utilize the summer and then bring them in and stick them under the Cob light at night (24 hours light) while letting a couple clones veg just off the COB so I can see how it performs. If I like it I'll grab another one (It wasnt very expensive) and that will cover my veg. If not I'll just scrap the LED idea entirely and get a 400 watt Metal halite.

For flowering itll either be 1000 watt or 2 600 watt HPS (I'm leaning towards 2 600 watts) but I've got time to figure that out. I'd still prefer the tent method for a million reasons but I want to get one here, add HPS and test what kind of heat it'll make.

SO yeah- I have alot of options- Even have a great area to build a grow room if it comes to that.

The problem I had is that I never really planned on growing indoor- If I had , I would have done things way different and been well set up- This was kind of thrust on me and I'm wanting to do this right but not having to buy everything all at once.

[Farmall]

I was so anxious to get my first grow right, I wound up with a reasonable expense but a very successful yield. You will be much better off using the 2 600’s as they will be more efficient. That 1000 w HPS has some heat to it but honestly, the ac infinity cloudline t6 fan did a fantastic job and it pulled from the 1000, into a 315 lec and then 22’ down a length of that slinky hose. Nice with a room however, you walk in move around and do your thing.

[Skunkaroo]

for only for plants the viparspectra 600 is awsome and only cost about $170.
325 lec is what id go with in a 4×4

[Colombo]

I'am happy with my 2 $ 69 300 w leds, low temps, low coast, productive results. Each photo represents 1 plant harvested. If you take care of the girls they will take care of you LOL Good luck ! Good Growing !!

[florenceccollinsc]

T5 grow lights are and have chosen the ones that are best suited for your indoor garden light , you can start using them to grow beautiful and healthy houseplants.
you can check my indoor garden

[Colombo]

Nice setup ! BUT, where's the good stuff ? LOL.

[az2000]

T5 is good for veg. But, you need 40w/sq ft of T5HO for flower. (Even better if you sidelight with some household LED lightbulbs to bring it up to 45w/sq ft). The nice thing about fluorescent is that it emits UV. This is something I think is lacking in LED (or at least was the last time I was into LED 3-4 years ago). Another nice thing: You can buy T5HO ballasts that can be remote mounted if heat is an issue. (Fulham Racehorse model has some that are remote mountable.).