Decarb.... big surprise to me

[Farmall]

While I’ve heard or read about decarboxalation and how it’s necessary for edibles, and cooking with medicine but, here’s a surprise for me.

A forum friend and mentor recommended I look into an Ardent Nova decarb machine. So, while I’m waiting, I am getting a bunch of emails and information about why this process is necessary for ANY form of consumption. Amidst of claims of a significantly improved quality of use, it also increases the availability of THC in the product .....again for ANY FORM of consumption.

in 1968 we were happy to grab a baggie full of seeds and stems and enjoy. Sometimes we’re were really freaking wasted. I don’t even think the word decarboxalation was coined yet.

Is there a general consensus about the validity of this claim? And if so, I can’t imagine how potentcy has changed

[SirSmksAlot]

Call me crazy but wouldn't the process of combusting your weed during smoking do the decarbing? I'd guess that if you plan on smoking it there is no need for decarboxilation. For edibles on the other hand I'd completely agree.

[Juicyj89]

I shouldn’t have read this post lol but what I think Farmall is saying is that back in the day people made pot brownies that were definitely effective but was it actually decarbed beforehand? Because as he said, “ I don’t even think the word decarboxilation was coined yet” which I doubt it was. Or that anybody back then new that much about it if at all. So how did the brownies/edibles work???

[Toker1]

Adding an amount of heat decarbs the product. Yes, smoking is one way to decarb. When making butter... the heat used in the process decarbs.
Curing is a form of decarbing. It is a slow enough process where it doesn’t vaporize terpenes. And curing doesn’t decarb 100% of the product.

[Rwise]

Back in the day we called it toasting, and did it on top of the stove in a dry pan (yes it was easy to f up), brownies turned out very good, as long as you didn't burn the weed in the pan,,,!

[Potted]

Bakeing brownies with dry weed at 350 for a average of 40 min, try Betty Crocker family size and a oz. of bud that should decarb it, alright... sure dident hurt 👍

[LurkingInTheGrass]

comes out a little fibery - texture of a bran or oat muffin (not like a brownie anymore)

[alltatup]

But the Cannabis fiber is very good for you also!! Keeps you regular.

[DingusKhan]

Fiber: pretty important for all us OLD potheads.

[Farmall]

When y’all get a free moment, go to their web site and check out some of that information..it seems to be saying, by decarbing when you DO smoke, it will have much more available thc and subsequently more potent. They also say it is irrelevant on how you will use it and DECARBING just makes it better. This isn’t cannabutter, tincture or extraction... it says it is essentially a heat treatment process that increases THC availability.

Vaporizing, as described on the Ghost MV-1 web, says that the vaporized used product is not ash as it would be by straight smoking as it is a much lower temp then burning.

My belief as a result of this “revelation” is any and all material should be decarbed as it just makes any of it a more superior product.

Am I lost in the ozone? I will be delving into this deeply because if it is fact.... wow. . . but I would sure love having a real lab test justify this. Hoping some might have some clue

[Juicyj89]

Oh I see what you’re saying now. Makes since I guess. Making them more readily available. Terpenoids and what not. Maybe. Be nice to know for sure you got that right.

[Toker1]

So if you check out lab test results you will see two things that are of interest here. THC and THC-A. The plant creates THC-A (it’s an acid). Drying and curing converts some of the THC-A into THC (activates it).
Yes, more active THC does lead to more euphoria.... but putting a flame or heating coil to THC-A also decarbs it into THC. A minimal amount remains unconverted after this process.
During the decarb process, something else happens... terpenes vaporize. The desired flavor vaporizes at a much lower temperature in comparison.
So if you decarb prior to smoking... you will enhance the THC while removing desired terpenes that give us that flavorful smoke we love.

[Rwise]

I have tried smoking what was decarbed, what I found was the taste was killed, the high was the same (if any dif it was not noticeable)

[Ell]

Try it, might taste funky like twice vaped weed.

[alltatup]

The Ardent Nova is a precision machine that will not evaporate terpenes, and the bud comes out of it still quite pliable, a beautiful brown/gold color with incredible aromas. It's like the Nova performs a 2 hour cure--I really think that's what it does.

Farmall I'd be interested in reading the information you refer to: I never read on ARdent's website that decarbing in the Nova makes the bud more potent, which would mean that it does do the same thing as curing, which is to continue converting some of the precursor cannabinoids to THC. Can you send me a link?

THC requires heat to become psychoactive. You can read about decarboxylation in a million places. When you combust, you burn away a lot of the good stuff, which is why vaping is much more efficient than smoking (use less and extract more chemicals rather than burn them up). Smoking, ancient custom that it is, is the least efficient way of getting high. I'm not saying it doesn't work: it just isn't as efficient at extracting chemicals as vaping and other forms of ingestion.

[alltatup]

uncledoug For you, my friend, and in the spirit of scientific investigation, I just took some bud out of my 8 weeks + cured Northern Light (cup winner) by RQS, ground it and vaped it. This could be entirely subjective, but I think it's better than the bud I decarbed a few weeks back. It produced an incredibly smooth and strong high.

It's like decarbing bud before it's been properly cured does make it psychoactive, but it is NOT the same as proper curing. I'm totally convinced now. The cure is the bomb.

[uncledoug]

alltatup, I'm curious how your 8 week NL cured in jars would compare to the same 8 week NL but decarbed at 8 weeks? I'm wondering how 8 week regular cure would compare to the same bud if it was decarbed at 1 or 2 weeks regular cure? Does decarbing just speed up the cure process if done early so it's more potent than 1 or 2 week regular cure? I'm thinking it may depend on when the decarb is done. Hope this makes sence because I'm getting confused just writing this.

[alltatup]

uncledoug I think I understand you... I think. I will have to decarb a bit of the 8 week cured NL and see if I can detect any significant difference. If I vape early in the morning, that's when I can make clear assessments.

I think decarbed bud after 1-2 weeks in jar is going to be better than vaping/smoking the raw. That's basically what I did to get through: I decarbed a little of this and that after it had been in the jars for a week or two. I wanted to leave all of it to cure (cept for enough decarb to get me by), but I had a couple of buddies in serious need.

I'm finally convinced of the wonders of curing. On the past year, I pretty much decarbed all the bud within a few weeks of putting it in jars and getting it down to around 62% RH. I'm not gonna do that any more. I'm a cured convert. I mean a curing convert. You know what I mean...

45 minutes later...

Lord, I'm such a stoner. I forgot that I have been vaping the 8 week cured decarbed NL. I decarbed some last week, so it's been a few days that I was vaping it and it was my favorite. I like the raw better, I think.

But part of the problem is that I get way higher at some times than at others. I don't know why. I wonder if it's that way for most everyone. The raw is getting me really high today. I'll try the decarbed NL in the morning: no telling what I'll have to say tomorrow. Stoners. Crazy crew.

[Farmall]

Hey Alltatup, thanks for helping to clarify this.... I’ll send you the place I read this.. Also, it takes 2-3 weeks for shipping unless you pay the expedited shipping which negates the $30.00 discount..

[alltatup]

Farmall Yes, they are always very busy selling their product. I like the fact it's not mass production.

[WeirdWiredWolf]

I've been looking into the Nova, but price is the question (now that the IRS is basically closed, who knows when or if I get a refund this year). I might try a small amount in my Decarbox/oven and see what happens...our oven can be wonky with temps so I guess the question there is how much of my harvests(s) do I want to gamble that way? I remember in college a buddy used to decarb in a microwave but I've heard not-great things about that method.

[WeirdWiredWolf]

Yup, I'll try a little bit in the oven and see what happens...if nothing else I can use the result for oil/tincture/lip balm if I'm annoyed by the taste. I'm also leery of using the oven because I have no idea what this mystery strain is and terpenes/flavors might go a ways in actually identifying it (in late flower my room smelled like cloves/spicy herbs and I'd love to keep that).

[alltatup]

WeirdWiredWolf Let us know the results!!!

[CaptPicard]

Yes, whatever you do please don't use a microwave! lol I've heard people use a toaster over - im not sure if that works well though. temps gotta be low, if you burn you risk everything.

how is your oven wonky? display temp not telling the truth? you could get a thermometer and measure the inside temp.

[CaptPicard]

So, today I made my first batch of cannabutter. I have a cannabis cookbook that is very good and it tells you that when you decarb you weed it does in fact increase potency slightly. Of course it doesn't say how exactly with any stats/tests. It basically states if you are trying to maximize thc content in your edible cooking products you should decarb it. I crumbled it up and put it in a covered casserole dish for 20min at 250F. The instructions in the book also says that most recipes tell you to grind up your stuff finely, however this book specifically states not to pulverize it into dust. The THC is on the weed not in it. Pulverizing to a fine powder will only introduce more plant matter - which we leave a more pronounced taste of cannabis (some dont like that - i dont mind it ).

I used:
- 14 grams (1/2oz) of decarbed weed
- 7 grams of trim (also decarbed in the same dish above)
- 1 1/4 cups of unsalted butter (they say use unsalted as most recipes call for unsalted, more than likely you'll be adding salt to the recipe itself)
- cheese cloth

1. Throw all that in a crock pot on low for 6 hours.
2. Let cool and dump/scrape into cheese cloth (which is over a large bowl)
3. Squeeze everything out into the bowl. As much as possible
4. Dump that into an airtight container.
-- After that I did more research and found that you could potentially get more. See below, comments welcome --
5. Pour a hot kettle of water over the left over cheese cloth/ plant material ball.
6. Squeeze all of the water out of that (When cool) and into the same bowl you used earlier
7..... This is where I am at currently... Apparently the water and the oil butter will separate. Sounds logical, oil on top of water. once separated you can skim the top and get the excess.

If anyone has any comments on any above - it would be greatly appreciated.

[alltatup]

Sounds very good!! Just make sure you don't get any water in your cannabutter!

[CaptPicard]

Hey allatup, the first part turned out very good - looks like a solid green stick of butter. The remnants I got from the secondary part got me a bit, just needed to wait for it to solidify. I did use a strainer and got most of the water out. There may be a very small amount of water in that small clump : /

If there's a small amount of water will mould be an issue?

[alltatup]

CaptPicard I've been making ghee for years, and the one thing I know is not to allow any water to come in contact because of possible bacteria. I think you'll know it if the small batch isn't good: you'd smell it.

[Farmall]

This is a similiar recipe in the Magical Butter Machine book. I have their decarb box and thermometer which I’d suppose is to keep the oven temps around 240 and the silicone box helps to retain the odors within the box. As I understand it so far...the Ardent Nova decarbing is so efficient. The resulting product is significantly improved for potency.

Of course what’s not to say the the claim is huge and the performance is not so huge....we’ll find out and time will tell. If the performance is that good, it easily extends the harvested volume by a lot. Since you’ll need less. A friend used the magical butter machine to make cannabutter and other than a greenish color, it went right back in the butter stick molds and wrapped up in it original paper. He wound up with 8 full 1/4 lb sticks.

[alltatup]

I originally purchased the Nova so I could decarb bud for tincture, and that worked like a charm. If you go to the Ardent website, you'll see a couple of articles on what you can do with decarbed bud. For folks who prefer not to smoke or vape, this machine allows you to take your medicines any way you want: just chew up a bud if you want.

From all the research I did last year, I concluded that the Nova was going to expose the Cannabis to the least amount of heat, which is exactly what I wanted so that I could preserve terpenes. Except for decarboxylation, heat is no friend to Cannabis: it degrades the chemicals. I would never attempt to dry weed in the oven because I'm a finicky Cannabis connoiseur. My goal is to grow the best bud I can and then handle it in such a way so as not to disturb trichomes. I know, I know: these are first world problems... But I love all the new technology, even tho I loved the 60s-70s dearly. I'll stick with this Cannabis today.

[alltatup]

Or VAPE. Only problem for me is I have one weed buddy and he has 2 yr old twins, so I don't see him that often. I will volunteer to be the guinea pig.

[Toker1]

Lol. Understandable. But you know what they say... “a friend with weed is a friend indeed”.

[Potted]

I would volunteer( I want to ) but ....... u know ,the bitch won’t let me off the leash 😢

[Farmall]

Damn Toker 1.... that is funny, never heard it but you can bet I’m guaranteed to repeat it

And.... got home from work today and the Nova had been delivered....only 5 days

let the experiments begin

[alltatup]

You're in for some serious fun.

[DingusKhan]

I love my Nova. I decarb my bud, grind it in a coffee grinder (pulverized in seconds, bitches!), and serve it from a spice shaker, like you find at a pizza restaurant with the pepper flakes and parmesan cheese. I shake it into yogurt or quesadillas. I've also swallowed teaspoons of ground bud, but that is unpleasant.

I also dose dogs with it. Subjective and variable, but 1 "shake" their kibble is enough to make a 10 pound dog walk a little sideways, but not tip over or freak out.

[alltatup]

Hey Dingus, what was it like when you swallowed the ground bud? How high did you get. Shanel the CEO of Nova says to stick a piece of decarbed bud under the tongue and let all the good stuff infuse into your system--at least I think I saw that on the site... been wanting to try it.... haven't had the nerve...

[DingusKhan]

I have eaten an teaspoon and a tablespoon of "shakyshaky" at different times, and I get a mild, long lasting edible high. Putting a spoonful of ground leaf in my mouth is pretty wierd. I hold the wad of herb on my tongue until it absorbs enough saliva to make a moist slug, and then I swallow it. I might chase it with milk or rum to improve absorption in my stomach. If the wad of herb falls apart, you get bits of leaf all over the inside of your mouth, like kids who try Coppenhagen brand chewing tobacco for the first time. Very amusing.

[alltatup]

Northern Light, decarbed after 8 wks' cure vs 8+ weeks' cure raw:

Test subject: Atu
Experimental question: What's the difference? Which gets me higher as fk?

I vaped the raw NL yesterday, and was delighted with the quality at the end of 8 weeks' cure. (As noted above, I had been decarbing bud for the past year without doing an extended cure beforehand. So this was my first really and truly proper cure, allowing the budded jar to slowly drop the RH down; it's between 61-59% in the jars now, so cure still going strong.) The high was strong and quite pleasing, smooth.

I vaped the recently-decarbed NL this morning; the high was strong, somehow slightly different, or is it just my mood? I think I prefer the raw 8 wks cured. Maybe it's the novelty of it, I'll have to keep comparing the two samples of NL.

[alltatup]

uncledoug Highs to me are like snowflakes: no two are alike. It's very strange, I think it's a good thing. Cannabis totally interacts with where I'm at in the present moment, and nothing else. It's always unexpected, fresh, unrehearsed. You know how some speed/heroin addicts say they kept chasing the first high they ever experienced? It sure ain't that way with Cannabis.

[Potted]

There are to many variables for a true smoke or vape test on a human, weight, diet, amount of sleep. No counting the last time u buzzed up.and That’s just the tip of the iceberg ! I’ve found if vapeing or smoking before bed and in the morning do the same thing,the high just seems to continue with out a pause 😁 wondering if outhers feel the same?

[LurkingInTheGrass]

going to need some more NL

[starramus]

From Huxley's The Doors of Perception :


"We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are

by ourselves. The martyrs go hand in hand into the arena; they are crucified alone. Embraced, the lovers

desperately try to fuse their insulated ecstasies into a single self-transcendence; in vain. By its very

nature every embodied spirit is doomed to suffer and enjoy in solitude. Sensations, feelings, insights,

fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. We

can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. From family to nation,

every human group is a society of island universes. Most island universes are sufficiently like one another

to Permit of inferential understanding or even of mutual empathy or "feeling into." Thus, remembering our

own bereavements and humiliations, we can condole with others in analogous circumstances, can put

ourselves (always, of course, in a slightly Pickwickian sense) in their places. But in certain cases

communication between universes is incomplete or even nonexistent. The mind is its own place, and the

Places inhabited by the insane and the exceptionally gifted are so different from the places where

ordinary men and women live, that there is little or no common ground of memory to serve as a basis for

understanding or fellow feeling. Words are uttered, but fail to enlighten. The things and events to which

the symbols refer belong to mutually exclusive realms of experience."

[alltatup]

Bunch of solipsistic malarky that didn't age well. Shoulda stuck to novels...