Grow lights! Moving from HPS to LED?

[vxrgtr]

Hi everyone,

Whats everyones thoughts on moving from HPS to LED?

Im currently running 2 x 1000wHPS grow lights, both lights set up using cooltubes to try control the heat. I've been reading recently that using cooltubes will be effecting my yield, plants not receiving the correct lumens, reflections from the glass sending light to the wrong areas on the grow space. Anyway this may not be true, the girls are sitting at 26c/79f, the summer just gone it was so hard to keep the temperature down the lowest the girls were sitting was 28c/83f. The yield was still excellent however the buds weren't the strongest.

Ive been looking at making the move from HPS to LED....

These are the three grow lights that I am leaning towards:

HLG 550

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/lamps/products/hlg-550

Spectrum king 602

https://spectrumkingled.com/products/sk602-led-grow-light-1

Fluence Science Spydr

https://fluence.science/store/spydr-series/spydr-2x/

All three of these lights claim to replace 1000wHPS grow lights while running at 500/600w, while significantly reducing the heat which would be excellent for spring/summer months...plus the huge saving regarding electricity. My main worries are:

1. These lights are not direct replacements for 1000wHPS and my yield is significantly reduced (I currently yield around 50/60 oz - manifold technique)
2. The LED don't produce any heat at all, therefore I have to run a fan heater none stop which would show no decrease in electric usage
3. Not worth the money.

Can any give me some insight into using LEDs, yield, heat, electric usage, and anything else that I am missing.

Im currently using

Bud Box Pro 1.2m x 2.4m x 2m tent
2 x 1000wHPS
8 Pot Auto Pot System
8" Global Air Silenced Fan
8" Global Air Carbo Filter
4" Systemair RVK Intake Fan
4" Diffused Air
Global Air Enviro Controller
2500w Heater
Dehumidifier
Humidifier
Mills Nutrients

I have four weeks left on my current grow and looking to upgrade for next run!

Thanks for taking the time to read this!!!

Grow, grow!

[Toker1]

600w (I assume actual draw and not par) LED is not a replacement for 1000w HPS. Your yeilds will go down if making that switch. Unless you plan on spending a few grand on LED lights, the efficiency is just not there on these affordable ones.
LED produces heat....a watt is a watt is a watt. A watt is a measurement of energy in time. It can directly be converted to BTU. A watt is a measurement of heat.
LED heat sink technology is not superior to air cooled hoods. If making the switch, I guerentee your grow space will be hotter than it was using air cooled hoods.
The curved glass from a cool tube does affect lumens present... but it’s a fraction of a difference. A flat glass hood does a bit better, but the glass itself comes with some losses. Once again the amount is practically negligible.
The real gains are that you can bring air cooled hoods much closer to the plants. This increases lumens much greater than any losses caused by the glass. In other words... yes, the glass blocks let’s say 10% but you increase the lumens by lets say 25% by having the plants closer to the bulb. So you gain 15% because you can be closer to the source than a bare bulb set up.
If you add LED or CFL side lighting, you can utilize the bare bulbs on them while keeping your temps in check with an air cooled hood.

[RagWeedDWC]

Having grown in the past with a 400w HPS and switching to led, you will see an overall drop in temperature compared to using HPS, but its overwhelming... and I'm still on the rail about using them.

[RagWeedDWC]

"NOT overwhelming.... should proof prior to post.....

[Toker1]

Ok... if you are talking bare bulb. Then yes, LED heat sink technology is superior. If you are talking air cooled hoods (like what our friend vxrgtr has... then I have to disagree. Having run a 600w air cooled HPS and a 550w (actual draw) LED in the same space for a year each... the LED warmed up my room greater than the air cooled HPS did.

[Canuck147]

Can't help you - never had that experience - never ran HPS just because of the heat.
But I did just purchase a COB light - very happy with it - Optic4

[vxrgtr]

What are your yields like using the optic 4? how many plants do you grow under the light?

[Canuck147]

First grow with it, still growing.

[Budler]

what about switching to cmh? Or you definitely want to go with LED?

[vxrgtr]

Does CMH reduce the cost of energy? Theres no definite for anything I'm just looking at my options bro, the 1000wHPS are doing excellent I'm just trying to reduce energy costs if possible while keeping the yield and quality the same.

[Toker1]

If the goal is to increase lumens, why not switch to double ended HPS/MH technology?

[vxrgtr]

I was looking at the 1000w Gavita double ended HPS but theres no way of fitting cool tubes

[Toker1]

Na... you don’t want the wind to be blowing on the bulb directly. What you want for DE is one of these bad asses.

https://heavygardens.com/ac-de-double-ended-air-cooled-reflector-8-in-12-plt.html?fee=15&fep=4342&utm_source=google-feed&utm_medium=shopping%20feed&utm_campaign=SCFeed&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o3&scid=scplp904904-OS&sc_intid=904904-OS&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmafhBRDUARIsACOKERN_3pXWltxlphW3YOuugFq5hnL6UxEy5rlWWMzxr3aBYeNSxZlBepQaAliYEALw_wcB

[DrPhoton]

Here is a list i made looking at the most powerful & efficient LED fixtures currently available. Cheap LED fixtures just do not compare to gas discharge at all, they have their place for small scale grows but they are typically less efficient and never perform to their equivalent rating.

Fluence

Spyder X Plus
PPF 1500 umol (True Measurement)
2.3umol per watt
$1500
$1 Per umol

Spyder X
PPF 810umol (True Measurement)
2.5umol per watt
$900
$1.11 Per umol

Gavita

Pro 1650e
PPF 1650 umol (Calculated)
2.6umol per watt
$1300
$0.78 Per umol

Spectrum King

SK602
PPF 1376umol (Calculated)
2.15umol Per watt
$1349
$0.98 Per umol

SK402
PPF 924umol (Calculated)
2.15umol Per watt
$779
$0.84 Per umol

Kind LED

K5XL1000
PPF 850umol (True Measurement)
1.3umol Per Watt
$1900
$2.2 Per umol

K5XL750
PPF 560umol (True Measurement)
1.3umol Per watt
$1400
$2.5 Per umol

Black Dog

Phytomax2 1000
PPF 1600umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$2250
$1.4 per umol

Phytomax2 800
PPF 1280umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$1949
$1.5 Per umol

Phytomax2 600
PPF 960umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$1549
$1.6 Per umol

Phytomax2 400
PPF 640umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$1099
$1.7 Per umol

Chill LED

Gen2 800
PPF 2000umol (True Measurement)
2.6umol Per watt
$2000
$1 Per umol

Gen2 600
PPF 1900 umol (True Measurement)
3umol Per watt
$1499
$0.8 Per umol

Gen2 200
PPF 615umol (True Measurement)
2.9umol Per watt
$599
$1 Per umol

NextLight

Mega
PPF 1400umol (Calculated)
2.15umol Per watt
$1695
$1.2 Per umol

Mini
PPF 255 (Calculated)
1.7umol Per watt
$595
$2.3 per umol

California Lightworks

SolarSystem 1100
PPF 1700 (True Measurement)
2.2umol Per watt
$1599
$0.94 Per umol

SolarSystem 550
PPF 888umol (True Measurement)
2.2umol Per watt
$799
$0.9 Per umol

SolarSystem 275
PPF 439umol (True Measurement)
2.2umol Per watt
$489
$1.1 Per umol

Here is gas diacharge technology for comparison

315 watt Ceramic Metal Halide
PPF 491 (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.5umol Per watt
$300
$1 Per umol

630 watt Ceramic Metal Halide
PPF 817 (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.25umol Per watt
$400
$0.48 Per umol

400watt HPS
PPF 480 (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.2umol Per watt
$150
$0.31 Per umol

600watt HPS
PPF 900umol (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.5umol Per watt
$200
$0.22 Per umol

1000watt HPS
PPF 1300umol (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.3umol Per watt
$250
$0.19 Per umol

1000watt DE HPS
PPF 1700umol (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.7umol Per watt
$250
$0.14 Per umol

600 watt Metal Halide
PPF 660umol (True Measurement, Including Reflector Losses)
1.1umol Per watt
$200
$0.30 Per umol



As you can see, these high end LED fixtures are more efficient than traditional gas discharge, but the cost per umol is much higher. Which is why large scale commercial growing is still mostly gas discharge. Its very difficult to recover investments for higher priced fixtures over a rational timeframe. Which is why, until the cost per umol comes down (which through haitz law it will, eventually), gas discharge is still top dog for the time being.

If you just want the best of the best, then i recommend either fluence, california lightworks or nextlight. This is because of both their great efficiency but also cost per umol. Although chill LED has great efficiency, these fixtures are more approapriate for large scale cultivation. Not small scale. But they would still do well if used approariately.

Please check my articles if you have not already, there is plenty of good information surround light technology and plant science.

If there are any further questions, please feel free to ask.

[RagWeedDWC]

Tip of the Hat Dr. Photon

[ZigZag]

For what its worth I use Fluence LED lights. They have a decent cost per umol/m2/s and they have great customer service. And I love the truly full spectrum lighting. If your grow area is 4x4', or 4x8' you can get very nice even PPFD over a 4x4' space with a Fluence SPYDRx or xPlus. The sweet spot is about 6-12" above the canopy. They have a new SPRYDR coming out soon so you may be able to get a good deal on an older model. The Fluence lights also have dimmers so you can use them from seed to harvest. I got two VYPRx lights from a commercial grower who went to the VYPRxPlus. If you're not using CO2 then their lights that put out 600-1200 umol/m2/s are plenty substantial. They are passively cooled but having a fan blowing across them helps me sleep at night and keeps them so cool I can rest my hand on the topside. The VYPRx series fit very well into narrow spaces but the recommended height is at least 18" above the canopy. There's a new VYPRx series coming out soon too thats not as long as the original. I've been using the VYPRx for three years now and they are still bright as new. Personally I don't think there is a "best" lighting system_ as long as you're getting a nice true full spectrum with as even a PPFD as possible over your canopy the next most important considerations are environmental, genetics and cost. I'm using the two VYPRx lights in a 3.5 x 6' grow space and get >800 umol/m2/s_ which is more than adequate intensity. If my sativa's don't stop getting taller I'm going to have to start using the dimmer. FYI_ you can hook one dimmer up to a series of lights if you wish. I use the dimmer for seedlings too_ set it at 10% to start and 24" height. I've used 4 different brands of LED's and I like these the most by far. It seems my plants do too! Cheers for 2019.

[ZigZag]

Dr. Photon knows his lights so check out the links he posted for you_ tons of great information for sure!