Best 4x4x7 feet grow set up under $1000

[DimeBagKilla]

I've been posting rather frequently lately but I see a community that is filled with knowledge evident by replies in some of my earlier posts. I am indecisive and have researched extensively which has led me to want a 630 watt LCD set up over my initial idea of a 1200 watt viparspectra. I am not opposed to HPS but would prefer not to have them because of higher electrical costs. I am a college student who desperately needs to pinch pennies as most due! What lights would you buy right now if you had this space and budget? I am really limited for space so I need a light and set up that can do it all. I want to make the most out of my initial investment and look to this community to help guide me with any information a first time grower/buyer should know.
-Thanks everyone

[Farmall]

Don’t read my post in your other thread....

[DimeBagKilla]

Farmall apparently I'm having some latency issues because I just got that! Thank you for the reply! Holy shit though? I don't have money coming out of my nose to be buying nearly that many lights right now. I would love to see that set up though. What size is your grow space? Would you be able to give guidance under these $1000 conditions?

[Farmall]

Ha...! If I had advice it would be: don’t go too crazy initially. My room was 10x10 roughly. But, the plants had taken ALL of that space because I did not fully. cut them back during veg.... in fact I veg’ed them for 8 weeks and while I did top them and bend them...I should have flowered sooner. It is nice to have those big colas producing more every day but this might have been better suited to an outdoor May grow. Being late summer and in an early cold zone dictated against that. Start small as toker1 said, look at the wattages carefully, I was so hell bent on going into it, that I germinated before half the plan was ready.... DONT DO THAT...plan appropriately

[Toker1]

Led will not save $$ in electricity. Don’t look at the PAR Wattage on those LED’s....only pay attention to the actual wattage.
I rock the 600w HID in a 4x4 and didn’t that cost much. Maybe $5-600 total for everything to run it efficiently.
The LED’s are ok if you know how to solder, replace diodes, replace power drives, and replace internal fans. If your good at electrical work that might even be fun. But I was fiddling with the LEDs way too often for my liking for this that and what ever wasn’t working that day.
You can always buy used equipment to save $$$... you can really save a whole bunch buying it that way.

[Toker1]

...if you can afford it the double ended technology equipment is the way to go. Get a high frequency ballast with a double ended bulb & hood. They put out the most light per watt used I believe. The thinner glass on the bulb makes for higher efficiency.

[DimeBagKilla]

Appreciated Toker1 Farmall. I looked on craigslist and it was virtually empty. Michigan just legalized so anything that was on their was probably snatched up pretty quick. I think I'm set on cashing into my local HTG supply's sale on black friday. I guess my only question now is now is should I go with two vertical 315s or one single 630 watt horizontal lec. My assumption is that I will be able to get away with two vertical fixtures about a foot tall in a 7 foot tent

[Farmall]

Just be sure you can manage heat.... I took my temp at the exit end of a 315 LEC and the 1000 HPS and they are tied together in series... at 25’ the exit temp is about 81F and intake about 72F.... impressive to me but no clue what it could be below the lens or in the room without ventilation and that’s an 8’ ceiling

[DimeBagKilla]

Thats good to know. I am in the beginning of winter here in Michigan and have an average house temp of 68 degrees so I should be fine into April. I was planning on running a 424 cfm with a fan control which I thought should be plenty for a 4x4x7.

[Farmall]

I’d agree. I’m talking 10x10 and even in August, the temp only hit 79 on 88 degree days

[PRIMO]

DimeBagKilla My start was cfl's inna closet, White paint, charcoal filter & a couple of fans, about a hundred bucks. Upgrade----- Apollo 4x4x80 tent, $100, Sun 315-LEC $400+, charcoal filter $65, fans smart pots and nutrients etc. another buck and a half.

[DimeBagKilla]

PRIMO Are you happy with your yields with the single 315? Also is that the vertical bulb model?

[PRIMO]

More than happy with it, and yes it is.

[DimeBagKilla]

PRIMO how much heat does that unit give off? I was thinking about two of them and now am reconsidering if I will have heat issues if I am unable to vent outside.

[Toker1]

That will only help slightly. Don’t think it will be enough. You need a heat extraction fan. You need to remove the heat from the grow lights and dump it someplace. Otherwise it will just build up in the grow room.

[DimeBagKilla]

I agree. I guess I will give it a shot going into the winter and try to work some magic my house is usually around 68 degrees so hopefully that will counteract the heat production but will need to look into some form of cooling and better location

[Toker1]

When it’s 68 ambient, my 600w 4x4 room is about 73-75. I have a 6” extraction fan dumping heat into an adjacent room. Plus I am running air cooled hoods (also dumping into adjacent room).
Just to give you an idea. 600w gets hot!!

[DimeBagKilla]

Toker1 are you using HPS lighting or LEC?

[PRIMO]

You're wrong. LEC runs much cooler. Read Nebulas opinion on the Sun 315 LEC https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-...lec-grow-light

[DrPhoton]

Watt for watt they are about the same. Of course going down to a system with less power is going to produce less heat. The same applies to LEDs with cheaper and lower power consumption products. Electrical efficiency for ceramic metal halide (not lec) has been known for a long time.

[Toker1]

PRIMO 1 watt = 3.4 btu/hr. Doesn’t matter what the source is. This is simply the laws of physics, no room for opinions.
Plus an air cooled hood does remove the heat more effectively than not having that technology.

[Redwasp]

DrPhoton if I'm not mistaken 1 watt converted to light is going to make similar heat regardless of the source. I could be wrong but he can answer that.

You are going to have to remove heat in the summer. You will need an exhaust fan for sure. And legal or not unless you have no neighbors you will need a charcoal filter. I mean they will smell it down the street and just come take it.

Other things you may need will be a dehumidifier, fans, a meter to test ppm/ec, a ph meter preferably, but you can use drops, nutrients, your tent, ph up and down. Good soil of growing in soil (it gets expensive) or your hydro setup. And that's just the basics.

If you are worried about total cost including original purchase electricity etc I do not think you can reliably beat a 600w mh/hps setup. I use 1000 watts but it is not as efficient but you do yield more but doubtful it is more per watt used. If you go that route get eye hortilux bulbs both mh and hps. The extra cost will be worth it I promise you.

[DrPhoton]

Yes thats correct, at least when talking about the 600w of the sodium discharge and the 315 of the ceramic metal halide. When two 315s are used together it will actually produce more heat, as its electrical efficiency is lower when combined.

[PRIMO]

I just gotta say, Ya'll go ahead and pledge allegiance to the laws of math and physics. I will not argue those points, All i'm saying is in my 4x4x80 In my 12'x12' grow room with my sun 315 lec ....cmh, on 12 off 12 the temps run a consistent 73 degrees. Oh that's with lights on, I never look in there when the lights are off.

[Toker1]

I don’t think we are comparing apples to apples here. 315 watts in a 4x4 is going to be less heat than a 630 watt 4x4 set up with out any question. A 600w in the same set up will be more than the 315w but less than the 630w set ups.
This is negating all other factors, such as ambient temperatures, air cooling features, volume of air to be controlled, effiency of equipment, and other heat/cooling inputs that are unaccounted for (such as heat sinks).
There are a lot of factors that determine that temperature in your garden. But when negating all others it’s been proven that 2 watts is hotter than 1 watt in general.

[DrPhoton]

Compared to what though ?. Theres no 315w bulb in sodium discharge to make a direct comparison. Comparing against the nearest wattage such as 250w is going to give inconsistant results. Using vastly different wattage bulbs is going to be completely pointless, as its only normal for a higher wattage system to produce more heat compared to a lower one.

Your observations may be correct, but you may be using the results incorrectly to support this conclusion. I mean no disrespect when i say this.

There are many variables which need to be taken into consideration to be able to arrive at the most likely conclusion. Electrical efficiency is directly related to the heat output of a device. The more efficient a lighting system is, the less heat that is produced. This is the princple of the first law of thermodynamics. Where all energy in the universe is fixed and can neither be created or destroyed. So if the energy is not used to create light, it has to be either transformed or moved. Which with lights is in the form of heat. So there is a direct relationship between electrical efficiency and heat output.