HELP! Leaves are turning yellow and spotting, curling on edges

[willistoned]

I'm trying to diagnose what appears to be some sort of deficiency, but it's my first grow and would love a second opinion on it. The brown/metallic spots started a few days ago and have been mostly affecting the larger fan leaves that are higher up on the plant.

I have two Mephisto 4 Assed Monkey autofems growing in a 2'x4'x5' tent. They are in week 8 since seed and week 4 of flower. https://growdiaries.com/diaries/16258-first-grow

The spotting is only affecting one of the plants. I have two lights in the tent, a 150W HPS and a 136W (draw) LED/blurple. The plant with the spotting is under the HPS and I've been keeping it around 15-17" above the plant. I have a 203cfm exhaust fan, 6" passive intake, and 47cfm intake fan.

Temperature in the tent has been 75-78℉ during the day and dropping to about 62℉ at night. Humidity is 35-45% RH. I've been running a sonic humidifier inside the tent which brings the temps closer to 75℉ and humidity closer to 40-45%. I recently added a filter to the humidifier because there was a ton of white calcium residue inside the tent from the hard water and that seems addressed now.

They're in 3 gallon fabric pots, in soil. 40% FF ocean forest, 30% FF happy frog, and 30% perlite. I've been giving a light nutrient feeding of the FF trio at about 25% the recommended feeding every other watering. I also give FF Beastie Bloomz at about 25% recommend feeding after I first started seeing the deficiency, thinking it was craving phosphorus.

I'm watering every 2-3 days. pH of water going in is always 6.4-6.6. I just got a TDS meter after my last feeding so I don't know what it's been on feeding, but my tap water measures 130ppm on the NaCl scale.

I have not done any flushes nor do I water until run off, besides what leaks out the side of the fabric pots. I've been giving about 56oz of water, which keeps the pots heavy for 2-3 days. I did measure the run off pH early in the grow and it was 0.1 above what went in.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[9fingerleafs]

Everything looks pretty well and your environment sounds perfect. Can’t imagine what’s the problem. Are just a couple of leaves like that? Or several? If more leaves are getting like that the problem is still there. It that’s the only leaf then the problem is in the past

[willistoned]

yea that's why I'm stumped. I started to notice it about 4 days ago and I thought I had stopped it when I gave the last nute feeding that day. I was looking this morning though and it's gotten worse since then. It's affecting at least a few leaves on every cola, but it's a tiny 9" tall plant so %-wise, it seems significant.

My theory is that I'm underfeeding. They seem to stay the same for 2-3 days after feeding and then start getting worse within a day of giving plain pH'ed water. That's why I got the ppm meter this week, so I could push the nutes a little harder but not over do it.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Unless you are using living soil ,like KindSoil, any time you add nutrients, you should be getting good, run-off .
Good Luck with whatever it is.

[willistoned]

I was aware of needing to get run off, but also didn't want to over water. I added a half gallon one time and still didn't get run off so I assumed the fabric pots just didn't provide run off like a plastic pot. Should I just keep adding water until it starts coming out the bottom or does it always just bleed out the sides?

[D.A.A.S.69]

Don't water-feed, until your pots are lite weight, almost bone dry, then water until you get 10-20percent runoff, out the bottom of your fabric pots, water real slow.

[9fingerleafs]

Could you take some pics of the entire plant? I think, based on the pictures, the ratios of your nutrients were off. It looks like it has a calmag deficiency but your tips are burnt so you shouldn’t raise the EC/ppms. you either gave her too much potassium causing calcium lockout or just not enough calmag.

[9fingerleafs]

That’s the thing with rich soils. Never know what needs to be added and what doesn’t.

[willistoned]

Thanks! I need to take a more recent pic, but will post one shortly...

[willistoned]

just posted a couple in a separate reply

[willistoned]

As requested, here are some pictures of the whole plant.

[9fingerleafs]

Yeah I personally think you have a bit too much potassium available to the plant. The soil is hot plus the nutrients in a relatively small plant. I wouldn’t even worry about. You’ll get to harvest just fine. Remember to water with only water the last week or two

[Camk]

looks like a nitrogen deficiency
do a flush of about twice your pot size of ph'd water then nute it normal should perk right up

[PuravidaC]

I have had the same issue with my last two auto grows. Haven't figured out what it was but thinking it may have been lock out because I was giving them plenty of cal-mag or maybe a fungus. Really interested to hear if you get it figured out. Growing with FFOF and Kindsoil this time to see if lockout was the issue. This may sound strange but do you smoke tobacco?

[D.A.A.S.69]

PuravidaC Your very welcome, ole buddy, you are not gonna hurt a thing, Phil even recommends tap water, for his KindSoil.
I bet your plants smell very good. I know that they are gonna taste good, when you burn a big fattie, lol
MerryChristmas to You and Yours too.
Don't stay gone ,so long the next time, lol
How do you like your 315cmh? I bet you and your plants like it.

[PuravidaC]

Yeah D.A.A.S.69 I went with store bought spring water this time because local hydro guy suggested using spring water and my tap water ph is too high and needs to be addjusted. I only have ph down and Kindsoil says to only use "natural" ph adjusters or it will kill all the friendly microbs in kindsoil. Last three grows have really been discouraging because of whatever keeps causing brown spots and leaves dying. Can't figure out what is the issue. Cleaned the shit out of my grow room after last grow and went with new fabric pots but as soon as flower starts so does the brown out. Have been reading that seeds can sometimes be contaminated with a fungus and last three grows have been the same strain. Just grasping at straws at this point. Going back to photos after this harvest. Have only had this issue with auto grows.

[D.A.A.S.69]

PuravidaC I use EarthJuice up-down, no problems whatsoever.
There is so many microbes in your soil, it's almost impossible to kill them all, imo.
That's why I use molasses the whole grow, to keep the microbes happy.Lol
Could possibly be your seeds, like your talking about, but I seriously doubt it..
I also use a little Recharge, every now and again.
If you use good water, with a little cal-mag, an molasses, with your KindSoil, you want be having this problem, imo.
HappyGrowing

[Redwasp]

I'm sorry I didnt read everything. First water till good run off. What was the ppm for watering after adding the nutes? I have never grown that strain but you would probably be safe at 850ppm every water. Looks like phosphorus deficiency. But could be wrong

[willistoned]

That I don't know. I just got the TDS meter this week after I started to notice the issues. I've only checked the water right out of my tap because the meter arrived right after I did a feeding. I've been reading about run off and how nutrient salts build up so I'm wondering if the pH is way too low in the soil now. My nutrient feedings have been dropping the pH from about 7.2 to 6.4, so with six light feedings over the past month with almost no run off, pH is very likely somewhere below 6.0.

I got something last night to catch the run off, so next time I water I'll make sure to water enough to get run off and measure the pH. If it's way too low, I'll do a thorough flush and go from there.

[Chemichael]

What LED are you using? You may be overdosing the calmag and somehow cause a lockout. A nice flush and re-nute might be a good idea without the calmag- maybe calmag once a week or every other. looks good otherwise.

PS did you check the bottom of the leaves with a loupe? Ive seen small bugs in soil cause that kind of look- If you see a few black dots- see if they are moving

[willistoned]

The LED is a Vipar DS350 - https://www.viparspectra.com/goods.php?id=87.

The consensus seems to be a lockout so I'll do a flush tomorrow when I have some time.

Just did a thorough check with a loupe and there are thankfully no bugs or signs of bugs.

Thanks!

[D.A.A.S.69]

willistoned. If your gonna flush you need to run at least 6gallons of phwater thru your pots, with lite nutrients in the last gallon, you run thru.

[willistoned]

I just did a thorough flush and took some pH and ppm measurements during the process. I did the first 7.5 gal with just tap water pH adjusted to 6.5-6.6 and the PPM was 100-120. The runoff pH was 6.3-6.4 during the entire flush. PPMs in the run off started high 900-1000 and settled around 550-600 at the end. The last 1.5 gal I added light nutrients (25% of recommended for FF trio) adjusted to pH 6.5-6.6. The PPM going in was about 300 and coming out was about 600. pH runoff at the very end was 6.4.

I raised the lights a few inches to reduce stress and was able to drop the humidity to 35% by cleaning out my carbon filter and removing the humidifier. I didn't realize the filter was pretty much clogged by the calc/mag residue coming from my sonic humidifier. I gave it a few good taps and shakes and vacuumed it out and was able to significantly improve the airflow.

The fact that the runoff pH and PPMs were within an acceptable makes me wonder if this was even a lock out. Maybe it was just a simple deficiency.

[PRIMO]

Hey Willy, next time you flush, putting her in the kitchen sink or a bathtub can save a lot of water totin and no mess.

[willistoned]

At what point do I consider an early harvest? I was able to get one of my two plants back on track, but the other has just been in a slow decline for the past few weeks. Most of the upper fan leaves are crispy and dead, and the sugar leaves are starting to get affected too. The lower fan leaves seem mostly unaffected.

The pistils are maybe 50% amber and the trichomes are maybe 50% cloudy with a few amber trichs on the sugar leaves. If this thing was healthy I'd give it at least two more weeks, but I don't see this thing surviving even close to that long. This is my first grow so I have no idea if I should be harvesting today, a few days from now, or wait it out for another week.

What do you think? Since this is for personal use, I care more about the quality of the smoke than what it looks like.

[Chemichael]

Ive seen leaves like yours continue to color up and get nasty- all while the buds pack on more weight. I noticed that his happens with LED and autos- when you dont have proper cal mag - or some other PH lockout issues -- at this stage- perhaps flush for the final week or 2- water only as usually recommended- and harvest then. I think a little longer and those nugs will be awesome

[willistoned]

D.A.A.S.69 thanks for the help! I have been reading up on drying and curing, and those tutorials are awesome.

[D.A.A.S.69]

You are very welcome.
And welcome to GWE, plenty of good help on here, if you ever need any,
Later buddy.

[willistoned]

Chemichael You were spot on. I ended up finishing this under a 150W HPS for the last two weeks, giving only pH'd water, and it made it to the finish line with flying colors. It ended up taking 91 days from seed compared the other one that was only 80 days, but I'm glad I waited it out. The top of the plants looked like shit, but I was able to cut off all the dead leaves and it actually doesn't look as bad as I thought it would. Thanks!

[PuravidaC]

So willistoned, have you been able to determine the root cause for browning issue? The last photos you posted look exactly like my last two auto grows and now starting to show up on current auto grow. Thought mine may have been too much cal/mag causing lockout but I used kind soil for this grow and getting same issue. It has only happened to me with auto grows so I`m wondering if Chemichael is on to something about autos. Going back to growing photos after this one finishes. Really getting bummed that I have had same issue for three grows and can't figure out where I keep going wrong.

[willistoned]

PuravidaC I tried everything I could think of and was able to stop the progress, but since I changed so many variables, I don't know with 100% certainty what caused it. I think it may have actually been a combination of lockout from nutrient salt buildup and my LED lights being too close when the plant wasn't healthy.

I did a 9 gallon flush in my 3 gal fabric pots after my initial posting and that stopped the deficiency progress in the plant under the HPS. The one under the LED kept getting worse and worse and I started adding a light dose of Cal-Mag+ to all the feedings. I also started watering with 1.25 gal per watering to get 10-20% runoff. At that point, they looked like the pictures I posted above. The only leaves that were affected were the ones in the upper part of the plant that were directly under the LED so I then pulled the light back to about 20". The lower leaves were super healthy and green so I'm pretty sure at that point it was light stress/burn from the lights being too close to an unhealthy plant.

Next grow I'm going to keep the LED higher up and only lower it if the plant is stretching too much.

[PuravidaC]

willistoned sounds like we are in the same predicament. I use a 315 LEC light so I can rule out LED light burn. Grew this time in kind soil so that eliminates lockout. I just don't know wtf!!😐 It has only happened to me with my auto grows, all from the same batch of seeds, so I'm ordering new photo seeds to see if that was the problem. It's frustrating when I see others with the same issue but there seems to be no clear answer to be found on the web. Anyway, thanks for your input and have a Merry Christmas!