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**Flockshot** · 12-12-2016, 02:28 PM

I will not be back to this thread, but I will be hoping people can disagree on methods, but they can not be personal. If GWE gets like the others I will just keep looking.

**Bad Voodoo** · 12-12-2016, 06:33 PM

Anyway. On defoliation, I only really recommend taking off the bottom third to quarter portion of the plant if you choose to defoliate, and I say don't take a leaf that you won't also be taking the branch of. I prefer to mainline to 32+ tops.

**Bad Voodoo** · 12-12-2016, 06:45 PM

Look, guys. I'm probably coming off a bit more aggressive/defensive than I mean to. All I'm saying is, I know what I'm talking about, and you can look it up yourself if you don't believe me. But don't talk shit and tell me I'm wrong. I have support for my position, you only have doubt and skepticism. The science is all there.

Sorry for pissing anyone off. I'm just a medically retired combat veteran dealing with his own shit, and I'll be damned if anyone talks down to me.

**Bad Voodoo** · 12-12-2016, 07:08 PM

Green75. That pic of the trunk is a perfectly manifolded and defoliated base. You only want to clear out the base to help with airflow and to avoid trapping respired moisture. You want the bottom third of your plant trimmed, leaves as well as the lower bud sites. So it doesn't waste energy on larf.

**NebulaHaze** · 12-12-2016, 11:04 PM

Everyone please be nice. There's no need to call other people names, and no one's ideas are absurd. It's completely okay to have your own opinion, but please don't attack others.

A lot of time you can say the exact same thing, but in a nicer way, and that's a lot more effective. I'm seeing some points being expressed in ways that aren't polite, and that's not in keeping with the spirit of the forum.

**NebulaHaze** · 12-12-2016, 11:15 PM

Personally, I've found that indicator lights and things stress out some plants and cause them to herm. However, some plants seem more resistant than others. I wonder if it has to do where the strain originated from? But just to be safe it seems like a good idea to go for total darkness for photoperiod plants

As far as shorter days in the flowering stage. I've found that shorter days makes the plant mature faster, so buds are ready to harvest sooner. But like Royal Nugs said the fewer hours of light (and fewer weeks in the flowering stage) definitely seems to hurt the yields. For example, an auto will yield a lot less on 12 hours of light a day than on 18 hours of light a day. On the flip side, sometimes you'll have a Sativa plant that would normally take 4 months to flower. Any plant that flowers that long tends to get HUGE yields. By giving shorter days, you can make the plant be ready to harvest in less time, but you will dramatically reduce the yields compared to fully growing it out.

**Potted** · 12-13-2016, 09:32 AM

Hear, Hear keep it right and lite peace bro

**Ingwe** · 12-13-2016, 10:20 AM

Alright, I've been following this post since the beginning, lacking experience I did not want to disrupt, but I've been thinking about the subject, did some research and tried to gather my thoughts. I might have something to add to the topic now.

If I understand correctly you claim less darkness won't make the yield suffer and possibly even the contrary. From what I've gathered I tend to kind of agree with you Voodoo.

Looking at the matter from a logical and scientific point of view rather than cannabis specifically, after all its a merely a plant amongst thousands of other, they all follow the same principles.

Alright so we all know plant use photosynthesis to produce energy, meaning the need light to grow. This is correct but inaccurate.

Plant absorb water and nutrients through the roots and sends it up all the way to the top of the plants spreading it to all leaves on its way there, this happens via the xylem and is achieved through capillary action and helped by evapotranspiration which is the action of sweating water from its leaves which creates a negative pressure inside the xylem,made out of an infinity of tiny tubes or "veins", and draws the water upwards.

Now that isn't it, it needs this water to perform the chemical reaction known as photosynthesis, chlorophyll in the chloroplast absorb the sunlight's energy to split H₂O into two Oxygen is realised in the atmosphere and molecules of ATP(Adenosine triphosphate) which is energy in a way, are produced in the cell (Calvin cycle)

Enzymes catalyse the reaction between Hydrogen and CO₂ to form intermediate compounds called phosphoglyceraldehyde (PGAL). Those compounds go through a carbon-fixation reaction to turn them into stable compounds that can be used by the plant.

The end product you can call elaborated sap, this is what will feed your plant not the nutrients in the tank directly, those are only some of the ingredients the plant needs to create its food. The "food" now needs to be distributed to the whole of the plant, this is where the phloem comes into play, this part is responsible of transporting it back down to the branches, trunk and roots.

There comes a time when there is enough glucose and nutrients circulating in the plant, at that time it doesn't stop producing it but modifies it further, it will start combining those glucose cells into larger carbohydrate molecules called starch which they store inside the large vacuoles in the cell for further use. Same as animals do with fat.

There you go this is a simplified-ish version of the nutrient transport.

Sorry that might have been a bit boring but it will make sense...Hopefully

Now from all that process we can understand a few things on how the plant works :

We know the plant will need sun to photosythesise and produce glucose to feed themselves. They will do so as long as there is light, and will produce large excess of food stored in the form of starch in the vacuoles of cells.

Why ? Why does it store food ? There is a reason for everything in nature.

During winter trees loose their leaves, how do they stay alive ? They store all their nutrients; reabsorb them from the leaves and else and send everything down to the roots.

If you think of it, photosynthesising the whole day must require energy but mostly man power, this is a job where nearly every cell of the plant participates. During the day the cells focus on photosynthesis which doesn't allow them to do much cell division or growing ...What does it do at night then ? Well they do respiration, yes like us, but this isn't enough to sustain the plant for long periods of time, this is where the starch comes in.

A plant will grow a lot during the night as it has great reserves of food on hands, simply google do plant grow faster at night, you will be surprised. They do not have to focus on recycling sunlight, simply on breathing to stay alive and grow ! It is proven that plants tend to grow a lot at night.

To come back to voodoo's claim that less light improves yield I would say it is correct but inaccurate, lets put it this way, In a perfect environment and perfect condition with a plant in goodt health that you know does well under less light that most, I am sure it would be beneficial as 12h of light is more than enough to produce glucose and large amounts of starch.(in the real world we don't always have 12h of light in some places you will have an average of 9-10 or less)
The increased time in darkness will allow it to focus on growing, using the starch and doing other task not performed during the day.

But now this is under perfect conditions , everybody knows perfections are not that easily attained. I am also sure it will depend greatly on the genetics of the plant, you must have a plant that does not need HUGE amount of light, yes lights yours must be able to blast them with a light that has great power and good penetration, a big plants that is kept too bushy with low penetration light won't do well as the plant barely have enough light too feed itself AND create large reserves.

As for what NebulaHaze said, I think there is another parameter you must take into account. Plant react to the length of the day, when you give them 12h of light they think sweet its still early no rush I can take my time,but as the days shorten they know they need to finish flowering quick, my point is that a plant will react to the length of the day and that MAYBE (I'm talking hypothetical here) if a plant is given 12 hours for most of the flowering and get the shorter day time towards the end of her growth when she start puffing up that might result in a different outcome as the plant knows its fine she is on time, its about right for the days to get shorter at that stage its cool.

I believe this whole shorter day thing is basically trying to reproduce the normal natural cycles in a non natural environment, it can work, but its not an easy thing to do to play mother nature in your grow room.
It will improve your yield if done perfectly, but I am sure it will be a very difficult skill to obtain. We hear about more people who failed doing it than the one who succeeded, either just luck, or simply a hard skill to master...

I do think you've got something there voodoo, experiment, prove it, show us, I know I am interested in trying ! And who knows maybe there is nothing there, but no reason to fight about it, its by thinking outside the box that we make the box bigger, be creative, if someone says its wrong, listen take a note and go try it, maybe it simply didn't work for him in his condition. Everybody is different and will have a different approach on things, look at George Washington Carver, this guy invented more than 300 uses for peanuts, out of all of them one of the most common use for it today is missing, Peanut butter... Different approach, different ideas, different people ! Be different!

**Green75** · 12-13-2016, 11:00 AM

Yes..outside sun light lessens more and more...so you can adjust your light on and off hours to simulate the sun....y...why take a proven indoor method and complicate it even more.....for what...bigger yield...c'mon...if you want bigger yields there are plenty of other ways to achieve that...proven ways....always keep it simple...simple...simple.....

My $.02....

**Weed Pharma** · 12-13-2016, 11:29 AM

In due time, there will be bio-stimulators you can add to your feeding. This will disrupt the plants normal internal clock, to start producing flowering hormones without the 2 hours darkness wait.
This alone will be able to increase the 12/12 to 18/6 for more yields.

Other countries (NL) grow all their vegetables hydroponically with yields approaching 60 tons/year (tomatoes) from a meter squared space.

I can wait, lol

I wholeheartedly agree this thread had a huge amount of useful information from everyone's "point of view"- but was totally lost in riff that was fostered by a few.

You can be the smartest horticulturist , with a PHD- but if you are inept at disseminating information and engage your fellow growers- you have wasted your time and ours.
I'm certain many wouldn't bother to read the 'flame war ridden post", once it went that direction.

On a side but related note- I understand this forum is to help muddle through the "internet wisdom/facts/myths" and I think we do a pretty good job, as everyone brings their own canna-baggage with them!

Kind Regards,

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