General Question: Sick Plants, Leaves, Roots and a Cunning Idea re: Defoliation

[PaganRich]

I do not have this now but have in the past had plants with say a Nitrogen toxicity. Now, my question is this: If the leaves are showing the signs of Nitrogen toxicity, is the Nitrogen still in the roots or has it moved up to the leaves to produce the actual unhealthy leaf, say. If so, wouldn`t cutting that leaf of remove some of the offending nitrogen overall and hence re-address your problem. Bit like removing a gangrenous finger to save the healthy hand.....just popped into my head this. I know de-fol and sick plants don`t go together but is it the roots or the presence of the actual Nitrogen in the leaf itself which occurs....stay mellow, folks

[DW2]

PaganRich,
Are you growing in soil or hydro?

[PaganRich]

Soil and I have to add more letters so: What do you call an Irish Lesbian....Gaelic

[NebulaHaze]

Hey, I love jokes too, but let's try not to offend anyone

[LuckyAcres]

I'd say FLUSH first , wait then defoliate but maybe the pros will weigh in

[Weed Pharma]

ALWAYS- leave you damaged leaves on the plant until you figure out what is wrong and it's corrected!
The leaves are your gauge to the health of a plant.
Only defoliate healthy plants!

[PaganRich]

So, my question is partly here guys though is where does, in this instance say, the Nitrogen reside to cause the mischief ?

[insomniaczzz]

I believe the excess Nitrogen is in the soil, thus the roots. If this is what you suspect, flush several times, without adding nutrients and see if plant improves. In veg stage, plants need lots of nitrogen, much less in bloom phase.

[Soilscience]

Really excellent question! I like the idea of defoliation, but not to get rid of the N in the leaves. I think that the defoliated plant will put out a lot of new growth which could help use up the excess N. If your soil is super well drained, then flush by all means. The flush will remove soluble nutrients, which are the ones that cause the problem. I have found that nutrient burn will damage the roots making them more prone to over watering issues.

[PaganRich]

Thanks Soilscience....good answer mate, cheers

[NebulaHaze]

I do not have this now but have in the past had plants with say a Nitrogen toxicity. Now, my question is this: If the leaves are showing the signs of Nitrogen toxicity, is the Nitrogen still in the roots or has it moved up to the leaves to produce the actual unhealthy leaf, say. If so, wouldn`t cutting that leaf of remove some of the offending nitrogen overall and hence re-address your problem. Bit like removing a gangrenous finger to save the healthy hand.....just popped into my head this. I know de-fol and sick plants don`t go together but is it the roots or the presence of the actual Nitrogen in the leaf itself which occurs....stay mellow, folks

What a cool question! I never thought of it that way. I believe the excess Nitrogen is stored in the leaves like you said, which is what causes the dark leaves and clawing symptoms.

The reason I say that is because Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient, which means the plant can move it around. The plant needs Nitrogen to make green healthy growth and if the plant starts running low it'll actually "steal" Nitrogen from the older leaves so the new leaves can be green. (That's why the lowest leaves turn yellow with a Nitrogen deficiency and eventually the yellowing spreads up to the whole plant if it doesn't get replenished with more Nitrogen from the roots)

And then separately, if you already have a Nitrogen toxicity, your plants will still be drinking up the Nitrogen in the soil, making the toxicity worse if there's too much.

So I agree, it seems like removing dark green leaves would remove extra Nitrogen from the system, but then the plant also needs less Nitrogen since it has one less leaf so I'm not sure if it would actually help the other leaves. Since the main problem is the plant getting too much Nitrogen in the soil, fixing that is definitely the thing to focus on.

But this is a really great question and honestly maybe it would work! However, if you leave the leaves your plant can always steal some of the Nitrogen later if it needs it

[PaganRich]

Good answer NebulaHaze