What is Happening to my plants - Near Death - Need Help ASAP

[MrGreenGenes]

Hi all,
First time grow. I need Immediate help ASAP! I fear I'm going to loose my 3 plants and many months of work.
My leaves are drying out, crumbling, withering, weird colors, super thin droopy.

There was doubling of plant size when I switched to flower.

Last week I discovered I had Nutrient Lock-Out... for about a 3 weeks before I knew it.
I didn't know and never monitored PPM, big BIG mistake!!! First testing of runoff was 1500 PPM.
I have completed two deep pH balanced flushes within the past 6 days and now my PPM are 350.
Next watering I think I will need to add nutrients back in (super low amounts) if plants are not dead??

I've never used CAL MAG, base A B or fertilizers.
During Veg they were growing somewhat normal. I topped them initially after 3 nodes developed, then about every 3 weeks. Also weekly LST Low Stress Training was accomplished to begin manifolding SOG.

Propagation Type: from Clones
Strains: Purple Punch, Cosmic Glue, Girl Time
Phase: 12/12 flower
Container size: 3 Gallon plastic pots with drainage holes
Indoor Tent: 3x3x6 with oscillating fan and carbon filter, temp 75-77 degrees
Light: KindLED X40
Grow Medium: no fertilizer potting soil
Water: unfiltered Tap 63 PPM

Thanks to many in this forum, my revised Nutrient mix per 1 gallon water:

1. I start with unfiltered Tap Water, 78 degrees, ppm 63
2. add and gently stir in Mammoth P, .5ml (Micro nutrients)
3. add and gently stir in Humboldts Secret Golden Tree, .5ml (Micro nutrients - Amino Acids, Carbs, fertilizers)
4. add and gently stir in Humboldts Secret Base Nutrients A, 2ml (Equal parts of B)
5. add and gently stir in Humboldts Secret Base Nutrients B, 2ml (Equal parts of A)
6. Measure this complete inflow mixtures PPM/EC
7. Measure this complete inflow mixture and adjust pH accordingly (need to achieve 6.3 to 6.5 run-off measurement for soil).
8. Slowly and evenly add this inflow mixture into plant containers until 20% run-off of water is in catch tray
9. Measure the run-off: pH and PPM/EC of each container to achieve your soil goals (I'm 3rd week of Flower @ pH=6.3, ppm 900)
10. Update grow journal notes for next watering alterations and historical reference.

Thank you @campasino for this Mixing order for nutrients.

Silicon
Calmag
Micro
Grow
Bloom
Bloom booster
Humid acid
Other
Teas

WHAT DO I DO? Someone Please help!

[D.A.A.S.69]

Morning Mr. GreenGenes, I ain't much of a plant doctor, but some of that damage looks like you might have had bug problems earlier, I'm not positive though, but even with tap water, you might want to use some cal-mag too.
How often do you water-feed your plants, an do you get runoff every time?

[MrGreenGenes]

Hello, I had gnats in the beginning of veg, but not in about a month. I water every 3 days and add nuets every third watering.

[Canuck147]

D.A.A.S.69 knows MrGreenGenes. Have to agree with him cuz I'm no doctor either. To me they look like they have been overwatered for some time now.
Hey MrGG - one question - have you ever let your pot completely dry out, like when you pick it up it's as light as a feather?

[MrGreenGenes]

I water every 3 days and add nuets every third watering. I have never let it dry out. That seems scary, especially during flower... but Im going to have dead plants if I cant figure this out. Thanks

[Canuck147]

Then that's one reason it looks that way. In future one needs to let the grow medium dry out completely - unless your growing in a dwc.

[MrGreenGenes]

Thanks Canuck147. I see, since starting I've just kept them every three days (with abou 20% run-off each time - which does not sit in the catch tray) and follow others advice regarding checking for wetness in top couple inches. So no, I have not ever let them go beyond 3 days

[GreenhouseEffect]

D.a.a.s. and Canuck both gave some really good things you should check.
Another one that comes to mind is light, since it looks like more of the damage is on the upper leaves, and leaves bright part of the pictures. Have they grown closer to the light, has it been moved closer or cleaned recently?
Also, what is the fan situation? Could they be getting to much breeze? This can cause similar problems sometimes.

[MrGreenGenes]

my light is brand new. KindLED X40. The light was about 14", not its moved up to around 20". The fan is located in the top of the tent blowing down the side walls. Lowest setting so its gentle. https://www.kindledgrowlights.com/pr...-x80-bar-light

[MrGreenGenes]

Upon thorough investigation discovered factually light burning was extreme. Thanks GreenhouseEffect So, now the light is up to about 34" over the canopy of plants and new upper growth appears stable. Mid growth is looking much better.

[Pyro1711]

https://www.growweedeasy.com/phospho...iency-cannabis. Does this look like what you might have?

[MrGreenGenes]

Yes it does... on some of the leaves. After a week of diagnosing and help from many here in the forum, we've determined it to be LED to close, over-watering with Nutrient lock-out, thus the extreme burning. Thanks for link!

[MrGreenGenes]

and oh yeah, dummy me, I stopped adding my base nutrients upon flower switch. I was thinking the micro goodies I was adding was going to take care of it, nope!

[Chefbjy]

Looks kind of like fungus gnats like D.A.A.S.69 said. But how did you flush for the deficiency was there damage before how do you know it was deficiency? 350ppm is pretty low for flower. Idk about your nutes cannabis needs uses lots of different nutrition. And it's pretty much starving at 350ppm in this stage of growth.

[Chefbjy]

1600 isn't very high...you lowered ec too fast imo. I've had ec at 4.0 in soil before ppms of 3000s. Campesino has a great guide to managing ec. Maybe he'll chime in here, but I think soil can run a little higher as far as ppm/ec goes...in my experience anyway. Plants will have different reactions to the ec levels and when you raise or drop it too fast it may cause problems. Hopefully you get back on track. I think this is the link https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...u-need-to-know

[MrGreenGenes]

Chefbjy thanks. I didnt know dropping too fast would impact them, BUT.... They were burning to death from the lock-out. I had to immediately flush to lower. If lock-out was not instantly resolved it would have been inevitable death. They were in real bad shape. My next watering I'll re-introduce 1/4 strength base A B, Golden Tree and Mammoth P microbes. Target goal for PPM around 800-900 / 1.2-1.3 EC. And I will read link to guide and look forward to input from Campesino

[Chefbjy]

Sounds good 😉.

[Flipion]

I dont grow soil, never could get the watering down pot myself, not even in my garden, so only DWC here so i may not be of much help. gnatts would be from soil staying too wet yho from what i read in the past, and when i switched to a new LED light factory recommended 24 inchs, which still was too strong for them, i had to back up to about 30 inchs.

[MrGreenGenes]

Great point about height of light. Raising up now. to 36" inches above canopy. The KINDLED X40 is amazing! Very Powerful.

[Sheesh]

How is your drainage? I agree to let them dry out then water and feed normally. I like the weight method for soil. Another thing that will help is yellow sticky cards around the soil and plants. That is a good way to monitor fungus gnats.

[MrGreenGenes]

Drainage is fine, into tray. No standing water ever. Gnats are no longer a problem. And I'll start the weight method. Thanks

[MrGreenGenes]

Update for today. All three plants look the same. Not better not worse. I wanted to dry out the medium quicker so I relocated the overhead ceiling fan down to the floor to blow across the top of the pots. Won't know until tomorrow morning if pots feel lighter. I also realized that the day I switched to flower I stopped feeding them base nutrients. My thought was just giving them golden tree and pH correct water would be fine. In normal situations yes. But not knowing I was going into flower in lock out. So the golden tree nutrients just kept building up. And because I was never monitoring ppm ec, explains the lock out, burning leaves and lack of phosphorus. If we learn by our mistakes then I've gotten much smarter. I'm certain my next grow will be setup and ran differently. Thanks all for continued input.

[MrGreenGenes]

Opening the tent today and seeing a glimpse of hope. Mid-layer leaves looking better as plants continue to dry out. Apparently one of my main issues was the LED light height above the plants canopy. I was 24" above and that was still to close. Now at 36" above canopy. The KindLED X40 is extremely efficient and good at what it does. I didn't start using this light until day 5 of flower, so it was most likely a Big shock to the plants system in addition to all the other issues: pH, PPM, EC, base Nutrients. Moral of story today: Everything matters!

[Canuck147]

Good job MrGreenGenes - keep resisting that urge to water - keep her drying. Everything does matter - my thoughts are having happy plants will always result in big buds. So get your plant smiling again.

[Canuck147]

Keep resisting - your plant will reward you in the end with some nice buds.

[MrGreenGenes]

But it's so hard, I'm used to every 2 or 3 days but you are correct, they are looking better. Not out of the woods yet

[D.A.A.S.69]

It's impossible for them to grow properly when the roots are sitting in water, they will suffocate, you gotta let your soil dry out almost completely bone dry before you water again.
Glad she is doing better.

[Flipion]

MrGreenGenes Glad to hear they are looking better, Happy women = Happy men

[MrGreenGenes]

Always been my motto, happy wife happy life

[Flipion]

indeed

[Sheesh]

gm Mr. genes of green, glad your plants are looking better. when I was in soil the plants would go as long as 9 days before the pots were light. I'm not suggesting you wait that long but don't worry if they take a couple more days to dry. You will know it when they are light so hang in there.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Yep, you gotta let your soil dry out, before watering again.

[MrGreenGenes]

thanks! Still drying out (day 5) after deep flush. I never imagined I was over watering but the proof is in the leaves. It may be a couple more days, pots still feel heavy.

[D.A.A.S.69]

MrGreenGenes, you will see a big difference in your plants, after your next watering -feeding, But make sure the soil is almost bone dry before watering. Even to the point of a little wilting, that's not gonna hurt a thing, plus when you see a little wilt, that is when you pick up your pot, to see how lite weight it is, then after you feed water them your pot is gonna be lots heavier, then don't water again until your pot is light weight again. It's super easy after you do it a time or two. Good Luck

[MrGreenGenes]

Campesino Canuck147

Hi all, still drying out the containers...BUT I'm starting to get worried, plants still look wilted and leaves ugly. Its been nearly 7 days since any nutrients or water. Isn't this not good during flower? The new growth looks better (even though their isnt much in flower). And the budlets just dont seem to be growing. I want to give these girls a small drink with nutrients to see what happens. Good or bad idea?

Heres some pics.

[Chefbjy]

You will have to get a good fertigation practice down by adjusting ec levels. Some soils salinity will build up and humidity and temp play a roll. Since you're in unfertilized soil I recommend getting started on nutes asap.

I usually go by a weekly fertigation practice by how much I have to water it was feed water water... though my pots would dry out in roughly 2-3 days. I adjusted ec to around .5/ ppm400 or so. To maintain ec level and gradually increasing with plant size and phase of life. This equaled around 125ppm for weekly fertigation. I was also using ffof soil which has high salinity and ppm out of the bag.

With it being so low I would adjust ec just above what it currently is. And since you're not watering a lot salinity will build up and it should be a little higher next time you water. In flower 1.2 is a great ec goal I would work up to.

[MrGreenGenes]

Chefbjy thank you. Tonight I'm watering with trace amounts of nutrients. Aiming for run off PPM about 400. It's been so long I think I forgot how.

[Sheesh]

When I blow up the 4th and 5th pictures I see what looks like a piece of webbing across the flower. Hope I'm wrong but is it possible you have spider mites? The leaves also look like possible pest problem. I can't see the spotting that mites usually leave on leaves though. Have you inspected leaves top and bottom with a loupe or microscope? spider mites are tiny and tough to see. Good luck.

[Chefbjy]

I think that's just a hair...😆 my dog is notorious for getting it on my buds and leaves...but definitely double check 😉.

[MrGreenGenes]

It's a dog hair. I keep it very clean, one snuck in. I'm continually looking for pests, thankfully none.