pH questions

[UrbZ]

So I goofed up and let my plants get a bit below recommend pH zone.

Runoff last night on 4 of my plants were in the 6.02 - 6.18 range all far to low. Im in soil. I was wondering what a safe recommendation for pH increase at once I can do without creating too much pH fluctuations.

I've been putting in 5.5 would it be safe to water at 6.5 next time or is that too high? Or should I go 6.0 next water then 6.5 the following? That would put me back at the bottom end of recommended soil ph.

[Dutchman1]

6.0 - 6.1 is only a little low in soil. Your fine. I water mine in a range. I shoot for around 6.3-6.5 and if it comes out 6.1 I water anyway. Next time I just water at 6.7 or 6,8. The plant is actually able to access different nutrients better at different ph's.

[UrbZ]

Yea its a bit strange.

The 3 torpedos have been getting the same treatment as the other 4 but still have higher runoff. They seem to be in a good zone at all times. They aren't showing anything major wrong slightly yellow lowest leaves is all.

But these 4 are yellowing bottom up quickly. I would say I've cut 3-5 dead leaves a day for the last 4 days off the bottoms. Im thinking its a major phosphorous deficiency. Its the only nute that at my 5.5 watering and low runoff wont be picked up. The cut off seems to be at 6.3 in soil.

So anyhow Next water I will hit them with a bit of a higher pH of 6.5 with a bit of Hawaiian Bloom added its npk is 5 - 50 - 17. That should knock any phosphorus deficiency outta there I think.

Thanks friend.

[Deadhead91]

What's the humidity been like?

[UrbZ]

Been a little higher than wanted in this tent. Like 42.5 ish lights on and a bit above 50 lights off.

[UrbZ]

This is the worst of the 4 plants. From the overhead view you can see all the yellow leaves poking through. About 5 or 6 newly effected leaves since removing most yesterday. What do you think deficiency or lockout, And if so what type?

I am leaning heavily towards phosphorus.

[Deadhead91]

Oh ok in the previous comment you said snow so I was just making sure

[Deadhead91]

Well after the flush let it dry out a little before putting it back in the tent to try to lower the humidity too just to be safe

[UrbZ]

Yeah the were fine through the coldest part of the winter we are thawing pretty quickly now. Stupid Michigan weather.

Thats exactly what ill do. Probably open the tent 15-20 mins early one day and flush right before lights on outside the tent then throw them back in after drying a bit.

[Dutchman1]

40-50 percent rh humidity isn't that high or that big a deal. I'd look at other things. I've finished grows at 60 - 80 percent humidity.

[UrbZ]

Yeah Im leaning less and less towards this..

[UrbZ]

Through process of elimination I have got it down to 2 things.

1) Nitrogen deficiency or lockout. Leaves are yellowing and dying off bottom up. There is wilting and falling off as well, could be this.

2) Phosphorus Deficiency, Leaves are yellowing bottom up. The leaves do have a shiny coat on them and they feel crispy.. Also the two worst effected plants also have dark red/purple stems (unfortunately both strains are purple naturally and I do not know if the purple stems are strain related or the deficiency.)

You can see how dark the stems are in the pics. Gonna flush and see what happens. Hope its a lockout and not just a deficiency wont be able to give food for over a week after the flush. Hopefully she doesnt die on me.

[UrbZ]

28 days out of 55-60 so far.

[UrbZ]

I thought about this too, but assumed it was just a tad early.

[Dutchman1]

Ya, does seem a little early.......

[UrbZ]

Flushed the first plant tonight with 5 gallons of pH'd water at 6.5. I checked runoff at 2 stages. 1st amount of runoff tested at 6.5 runoff with 656 ppm. The second part of the runoff was also at 6.5 pH but ppm was only 420 ppm.

So with this info would you assume deficiency over lockout?

If it is a deficiency should I up my food for the other plants showing this next feed?

If its lockout I will flush the rest if the plants with the same method.

[DingusKhan]

Might she want some flower nutrients? Her soil might be getting depleted.

[UrbZ]

I was thinking that too. But if im in a lockout situation more nutes will just hurt, this has me hesitant. I did feed 1350 ppm but 4 days ago.

Maybe tomorrow I will just feed the other plant showing the next most issues. Up the nutes a hit and compare the twos reactions.

[D.A.A.S.69]

I sure don't think it's lockout, if you are even close to the right number, your ok .
If those leaves are dying an falling off thats a nitrogen shortage.
The main thing to remember, is each plant grows differently, an you have to doctor them differently.

[DingusKhan]

As Nebula says, and most who are offering help are pointing out, most deficiencies are caused by pH being off. You've done some flushing that will both correct your pH, AND strip away a lot of nutes. It may be that your pH is getting there, but there might not be enough nutrients left in the soil, or not in the right proportions.

[UrbZ]

Time for some food! Thanks everyone for chiming in. Now just to wait and see.

[Deadhead91]

Let us know if it helps best of wishes

[UrbZ]

So we shall see. I fed one of the other plants today instead of flushing. I upped the food to 3/4 strength and added some extra p-k for good measures. PPM was at 1700!

Now just to watch each plants reaction, to see which one helps.

Im hoping to hold of on the other two plants a bit until I see which one helps more.

So if the extra food does help, can I feed the other plants again even if they were fed with nutes last time and not just water? Or should I still do a water only then back to nutes?

[DingusKhan]

Yes, but only if they look like they might be having some deficiency going on, and you have your pH under control. Each plant might have different needs, even individual plants from seeds of the same strain may want different nute levels.

But it might be a good idea to keep the nutes on the lighter side, like 1/2 strength. That way, if it's not the right solution to the problem, you will be less likely to create new problems.

[UrbZ]

That was what originally started all of this mess. lol I checked runoff of all 4 of these plants they were all a bit low. All 4 were under 6.2, 1 plant was almost 6.0.

Which leads me to why I thought phosphorus def, it is best taken up at 6.2 and above. The plant still get some in this range but have to fight to get it.

Lower leaves yellowing then browning and wilting. Do have what seems like a shine to them, feel crispy and red stems (but this could be strain related), all phosphorous deficiency related.

So now 1 plant has been flushed and 1 plant has been fed a bit heavier. Im going to watch and see what plant has the better reaction and go with the route that was used to fix that plant to save the rest.

If it is nitrogen or phosphorous deficiency the plant fed should get better and the flushed plant should worsen.

If its lockout the plant that got fed should worsen and the flushed plant should get healthier.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is my logic.

[UrbZ]

Okay well I think my plants have already spoken.. LoL

I checked the runoff from the plant I fed before leaving for work. For gits and shiggles. Its runoff was 6.6 pH and 1550 ppm hahaha. I did just feed a massive dose though so I expected that.

This plant perked right back up looks fine. No worse for the wear from the 1700 ppm in week 4 of flower.

The plant I flushed is worse significantly. 2 leaves have half curled in on themselves and died within one day since flushing.

So deficiency it is!!

So now my issue is, this plant is food deprived terribly and it will likely be 4 days before shes dry enough to feed.

Is there any thing I can do to get her food?

Is it too late to make up a foliar boost? 30 days into flower. I know its a terrible time to attempt this but what if I foliar before lights out and put and extra fan pointing at her..

[DingusKhan]

Well, shit. That's how I get when I'm hungry too. I'm glad you got that troubleshot.

Since you're in smart pots, you could poke a hole in the fabric and feed in an air hose like for a bubbler for DWC. That will help dry out your soil and keep your roots from drowning. My next soil grow, I'm going to put a piece of soaker hose with an air hose poking into it so I can give the soil some air every once in a while.

Right now, I've got my 7 gallon grow bag sitting on top of a 10 inch air stone in the bottom of the kitty litter pan. I have no idea if it helps, but it's fun.

[UrbZ]

I like that idea. some diy'er stuff. make some custom air pots.. hmm

[UrbZ]

So I am still a bit confused. lmao

I just watered the other 2 plants.. Because all 4 are showing the same issues, low ph runoff and exact same symptoms I assumed deficiency in all 4. So I fed a low dose of food at 6.3 pH at 650 ppm. Heavy feed was last water I did not want to cause lockout. Next water will be water only for sure.

Well here is where things get confusing.

The healthiest of all 4 plants(the smaller black) had a runoff of 6.65 pH but the ppm was an astonishing 1500. Thats really weird because I just only fed 650 ppm.

The second sickest plant(grape god) had a runoff of 6.5 pH and 1100 ppm. Same situation only fed 650 ppm and way higher runoff.

Is this actually a sign of a lockout scenario? I am so lost and confused with this right now... uhhg

[Dutchman1]

Geez....I'm not sure but you may want to give em a few days to see what the response is to the feeding. If your ph is right which it is and you just flushed and now fed I don't know what else ya can do.

[UrbZ]

I only flushed the one plant the sickest. The other 3 have only been fed. I have not fed, flushed the same plants so close together.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Hey Man flushing is hell, on a plant, especially in soil, not so much in coco, but it's still hard on them.
Everyone is different, but I like to see a little tip burn every now and then, and I feed mine as heavy as I can, the whole grow, except right at the end. Then I use Overdrive. But you have got to keep feeding,constantly or else your gonna see some deficiencies.

[UrbZ]

Yea this entire thing is confusing. I may actually have to sit down and write this out in the most non confusing way possible to try to get some help.

Basically its 4 plants, 3 strains all same symptoms with varying degrees of sickness.

2 waters ago checked runoff on all 4 they were all low pH runoff. Not in a good zone for phosphorous which led me to believe phos. deficiency.

So plant 1 the sickest (purple urkle) I flushed. I got it back to he correct range with the flush at 6.5 pH.

I waited a day before messing with the other 3 to see the reaction of the urkle. It got worse which led me to believe deficiency over lockout.

So then I fed the other 3 plants instead of flushing.

The second healthiest plant (the black 2) got fed a large dose of food. I fed 1700 ppm at 6.3 pH. Runoff pH came out in the correct zone 6.6 and runoff ppm was 1550. This plant seemed to respond well. So I really was thinking deficiency. previous water was water only reason for the higher dose.

The healthiest of the 4 (the black 1) got fed only 650 ppm at 6.3 pH. (previous watering was food reason for lower dose) But whats strange is it had a runoff ppm of over 1500. It came out in the correct pH range at 6.5.

The second sickest plant (grape god) got fed 650 ppm at 6.3 pH. (previous watering was food reason for lower dose) Runoff came out at 6.6 and 1100 ppm.

So whats confusing is these last 2 plants only got fed 650 ppm but had runoffs of 1100 and 1500 ppm. That makes no sense to me if I only put in 650 but get out so much more.

I have not been able to check on my girls yet as lights are still off.

To see how they are doing.

Is there anything I can do to feed the urkle? I am sure it was deficiency and the flush hurt her worse. Now my pot is soaking wet for the next 3 days and she needs to eat.

Is 30 days to late to do a foliar?

[D.A.A.S.69]

I don't know what your water-feeding schedule is, but you can go to 2waters in a row, and your ppm is gonna come do some, plus I grow in soil an coco and don't keep up with all that ppm sh-t.
Only time I ever spray anything, it's cause of low humidity, don't know anything about foliar feeding either, never had to do it.

[UrbZ]

I've been doing water, feed, water, feed because of drying time between waters. is like 4 or 5 days.

My next grow none of this will be an issue because im going from 7 to 3 gallon pots. I just want to get this harvest over. I got in way over my head for a first grow. lol.