Down the pH rabbit hole

[Sockfilter]

In my opinion pH is the base for everything else, w/o it we really are in the dark.

Coming from flood and drain hydro, testing the rez w/ pH meter for me was fairly straight forward and simple with minimal pH meter maintenance.

However I have made a shift to coco in pots and top feeding after premixing nutes in gallon jugs. With that being said, testing pH for each jug as well as the run-off for each plant becomes more of a chore. Still learning and dialing it in with what the plants are telling me.

So I have gotten fed up with dealing w/ pH meter due to calibration needs, proper storage, costs and just the idea of being DEPENDENT upon the dang thing has led me to give the basic GH pH indicator solution a go. Heck for $10, We get enough pH indicator solution to last years. Yes not as accurate, yet I strive for a nice pH shift between 5.5-6.5. Seems very doable with the pH solution.

The Details:
R/O water, No DI, so around a ppm of 10-17 raw
Add back around 90-120ml of well water to bring TDS back to 30-40ppm for buffering
GH Flora trio

The problem/question:
With certain nute strengths (let's use transition with a 2.5ml for calmag, micro, gro, bloom). After mixing up and letting it rest for a few, I test the pH with 5mls of nutes and 3 drops of Indicator solution. I get a Yellow with a bit of blue/green which tells me it is rather close to 6.5. I drop it down a bit with some diluted phosphoric acid. This is where it gets sketchy for me. I test and get a yellow with definite orange tint (pH 5.5) right out of the gate, HOWEVER if I let that solution sit for 2-5 mins, the color has changed back to a Yellow with blue.green (6.5).. This tends to be the case no matter how long I let the premixed nutes sit and stabilize.

Anyone else have this issue and how do you deal with it w/o being solely dependent upon a meter. As I mentioned above I do listen to what the plants are telling me, however I am still learning the In's and Out's of the pH solution and the instability of the test colors within minutes has me a bit concerned and perplexed

If you have been down this rabbit hole, I would greatly appreciate your comments, thoughts or suggestions..

[D.A.A.S.69]

Morning Socks, I use both meters an drops, after I adjust mine, I let it set for a minute or two , an if it's where I want it, I don't worry about it, my plants don't mind a bit, no lock-out.
Its easy to see how it makes you wonder though. I used to think about that PH stuff, but no more thinking for me, if it's in the right zone ,my plants are getting it.

[LaughingBuddha]

Measuring run off is scatological. Stop and you'll be much happier.

[D.A.A.S.69]

You can if you want, I'm not.

[Sockfilter]

Thanks LB, however I do believe that the initial run off is important as it can tell us HEAPS of information. Never had issues with my run off though, just with the pH stability of a weaker nute mix and some transition mixes. mid-late grow and mid-late flower nute mixes pH remain stable in color when using the test drops for me.

[LaughingBuddha]

Its your time.

[Sockfilter]

And a good morning to you DAAS.. Thank you for your input as it is greatly appreciated, Let me get this straight, you let the nute test sample sit for a few minutes with the test drops in it and use the Final Color as the TRUE pH (if not using meter of course)?

I made up another 1 gallon jug this A.M. and added back a little more well water to bring the TDS back to 60ppm, in hopes of a better buffer with consistent stable color of test solution. The color still shifts from a Yellow Orange (right when I put in the drops) to a Yellow Green in just a couple of minutes..lol..

Seems to only be giving me this kind of shift when I am making up a a weak nute solution for transplanting clones..

In any event, it is one of those learning curves I will master by doing and listening to the babies. Yet I still yearn for the knowledge as to why, Knowledge is power..HaHa

[D.A.A.S.69]

Morning Socks, are you using Advanced ph perfect nutrients? It sounds like it.
Some things like molasses make the colors difficult to see, but I still initially use both drops an meters, after sitting a couple of minutes if it's in the right zone, I'm feeding my plants, there is alot of buffering going on in the soil to help keep it in the right zone.
And you are right about checking runoff from the start, the last 2 big sacks of FFOF was below 5.0 when we checked it. Seedlings want grow good that low of ph.
Those sacks could have been old as far as I know, but even Mr.Kind of KindSoil says the same thing, and he ought to know.
Another thing ,but you probably already know this is to never use both ph up and ph, down in the same feeding.
I'm no pro by no means, but I don't have problems with nute lock-out, but it is very easy to lock-out nutrients if you aren't paying attention,
Your plant will most definitely tell you when something is out of kilter. Especially when they quit drinking.
Your gonna do fine Socks

[Sockfilter]

Thanks again DAAS,

Im using the GH flora trio series (micro, grow, bloom) as well as the calmag. GH claims that even the flora series is buffered to help maintain pH, however i dont trust them..hahaha

No molasses added for this specific issue, however I have started adding in a bit 1 x week in my mid-late flower stage (which is another question I will post in regards to coco).

I would say that I am a bit OCD with this during the learning curve, Yes I am NO pro either, however do have good experience in flood-drain setups running 50 gal reservoirs. For me that was easy to dial in, Coco a little more tricky initially for me, I do love it though. Once I figure out why the color wants to shift on me for certain nute makeups, then I wont be so OCD about it with testing nutes going IN and coming out (run off). Will still check though, just not EVERY SINGLE time..haha

Got my good eye on them as the girls DON"T lie..

Soil is the BOMB for buffering protection though.

[PuravidaC]

Interesting, DAAS. The last couple of FFOF bags I have purchased have high ph, like upper 7's to low 8's. I only use drops so I don't have accurate reading but have been constantly watering with lower Ph'd water with run off in lower 6 range. Girls seem to like what they have been getting but I have seen first hand what ph imbalance can do to plants!

[D.A.A.S.69]

Morning PuravidaC, Mr Kind did alot of experimenting with different types of soils an coco, to try to find what worked best with his Kindsoil, and all the reports are on the KindSoil website, coco-loco was one of the best he ever found that worked well with KindSoil. He also said he ain't ever opened a sack of FFOF that didn't have bugs in it.
Where I live ,there is not alot of places that sell growing supplies, I'm pretty sure my 2 big sacks was old as hell.
Another good thing about that KindSoil is if you send him some pretty pictures of your buds ,he will keep you supplied in KindSoil for free, you can't beat that with a stick, that KindSoil's awesome stuff.