CANNABIS MEDICINE: The biphasic effect

[dontknownuttin]

The stuff works for me! I had to go on a cruise vacation. I could not smoke or vape. on the ship. I got a bottle of THC and used it to medicate on the ship (It was grape flavor). I pored a 4 ounce bottle into a Robitussin grape flavor cough medicine bottle (went right through security). Nothing like standing on deck with 300MG THC in my brain!.

[Potted]

That’s one way to beat the man

[alltatup]

My CBD slab arrived last week, and I added 500 mg to 15 ml of tincture; it was too much CBD, very interesting how it changed the effects of the tincture. So I added another 60 ml to that tincture to cut the CBD. Results:
A much mellower, calmer high; I definitely feel how the CBD interacts with THC. I'm still playing around with titration: 20 drops gets me nice n high in the morning.

[alltatup]

It's funny: it's one of two words I misread for a long, long time. The first was tuRmeric, which I always read as tumeric. And I saw this word as trituration.

That's cool: alloying precious metal!!!

[oldjarhead100]

CBD slab???? did you find something new for us ATU

[alltatup]

oldjarhead100 slab is the crystal form rather than the powder form. I broke off a 509 mg chunk and broke that into pieces small enough to go in tincture bottle. Next mirning it was all dissolved into the tincture.

Go to CBDistillery. They have great prices n good folks!

[Insight]

Well, ATU got me inspired to try some edibles...so I got the Nova and also the Magical butter machine.

I made a tincture with Everclear, about 1 oz trim and 13 oz everclear and let it "steep" for about 3 weeks in the freezer. I tried it sublingual but the "burn" from the Everclear was too much....I tried cutting with some OJ but didn't notice much effect....I tried using more but think I was feeling the Everclear more than anything else. I'll have to experiment more.

Also made some butter with about 1-2 oz trim, decarbed in oven and then simmered with 1 lb of butter for 4 hours...then made little butter pucks by using a muffin tin and only filling each about 1/3 full.
Half a "puck" put on some toast and I was toasted from 10am to 6 pm....totally mellowed out.....actually was able to sit still and watch 2 movies....could never do that before. I also will put a bit under my tongue for a more subtle effect for a shorter period of time.

Then I tried......20 oz of trim, decarboxylated and then mixed with 2 cups unrefined virgin coconut oil, and 2 tablespoons of Lecithin and put into the MB on 160° for 2 hours.........OMG

I put about 2 M&M sized pieces of the infused coconut oil (hardens when refrigerated) under my tongue......it was like taking 2 xanax.....totally relaxed, no anxiety.......great experience!

I now use that to help fall asleep.

I think the biggest issues I was having is expectations....I was expecting it to be like smoking........its not.....and I'm starting to appreciate that.

Hey ATU....thanks for all your posts and getting me motivated to experiment with edibles.

[alltatup]

Insight Thas what I'm talkin bout!!! Thank YOU for sharing all these experiments!!
It really is fascinating to me, and I'm just barely interested in vaping right now (well, except in the evening) because the tincture is so fascinating to me. One thing I've discovered that really perplexes me: when I take the tincture early (I'm talking 4 am, when it's still dark, on an empty stomach), I get this amazing high and I think it has something to do with the time of day (or night depending on your schedule). But when I take it later in the day, it doesn't feel the same at all.

Please tell me what strains your trim was from for tincture, butter and oil: the same?? I want the xanax effect!!! And for the oil, do you really mean 20 oz or 2 oz????? ;-}

[Insight]

ATU...The strains for the trim were Northern lights and cinderella 99. I meant 20 grams....not 20 oz per 2 cups coconut oil.

[Zomb]

Awesome information. alltatup thank you for sharing your experiences and the information you gathered. I wanna give this a try. My wife will try it anyways lol. I've began growing for her medical needs. I used to enjoy cannabis recreationally but can't to keep my job. But happy that I can grow for her and learn about this awesome plant that has so many benefits.

[alltatup]

Zomb I tend to see it all around as a medicine now. If you wanna, let me know what medicinal strains you're growing, and I'll tell you about mine (set to harvest in a few months...)

[Zomb]

Sorry alltatup I phrased it wrong, WILL be growing. My equipment partially showed up today. Will begin my DIY room after Christmas. Seeds will show up mid January at the latest. Misty Kush and Wonder Woman. Any thoughts/experiences with those? Both from Nirvana. Any seed bank you prefer mostly? And strains you prefer? And any good reading material for a beginner trying to get into the world of making medicinal products?

[Insight]

alltatup ." One thing I've discovered that really perplexes me: when I take the tincture early (I'm talking 4 am, when it's still dark, on an empty stomach), "

Just a thought but I would think it may be tied to your Circadian Rhythms......which affect melatonin levels, cortisol levels, body temperature, blood pressure,......many things that could effect the high at different times during the 24 hour cycle.

[alltatup]

Yes, but in effect, it's like most other psychoactive drugs and the differences vary from user to user. I'm not saying it's like thorazine, which has a very specific effect on everyone who needs it, but the SSRIs are a case in point. No doctor knows how this one at x dosage versus that one at y dosage is going to effect the patient.

I know cannabis affects me differently at different times as I said before: it very strongly depends on my state of mind. But that isn't all: CBD makes a huge difference.

[DrPhoton]

Yes i agree, this differential effect i think may be associated with the genetic differences between people. But also the chemical characteristics that ones brain has developed. Also the drug itself is to blame. If a drug more closely matches that of the natural chemical made by the body, the more predictable the effect will be. Cortisol replacement therapy for example has drug treatments that are almost identicle to the natural chemical. But other drugs that have a even mildly different structure, interact with the body in such a way that presents side effects or differential physiological responses.

[Paracelsus]

Some of the things @Alltataup has previously written is dosing is not linear (to paraphrase) in effect when dealing with the same person, same drug, same environment, same dose, same time different day. One thing I can say is reading these threads on GWE has me uping my self medication schedule.

[oldjarhead100]

wow what a read for the early morning lol I feel stoned after all that , Thanks guys its nice to be in a conversation with intelligent people and not have to speak and give myself away

[alltatup]

Hey I know you and I know how smart you are, so no use pretending to hide your quick wit, deep insight and intuitive perceptions!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oldjarhead100]

thanks Atu Still I can be slow on the intake.
not smoking intake though lol

[alltatup]

Zomb No experience with either strain, but I hear really good things around here about the Wonder Woman. I read the description of the MK: it looks divine! So I take it you're after high THC with a little CBD... What kind of medicine is your wife wanting? What medicinal effects?

I like many breeders, but among my favorites (lots of respect and trust for them): Dutch Passion, Barneys Farm, Sensi Seeds, Nirvana, G13Labs and many others. There are so many reputable breeders!

Right now I am growing a couple of high-CBD strains, some super-relaxing strong indicas and a couple of hybrids. I want to make tinctures with the CBD strains that will help with anxiety and stress; I want the indicas for pain and relaxation, to vape in the evening; and I want to make a tincture mixing the strains together.
I also love hybrids: White Widow (DP), Chemdawg (Humboldt Sd Org), C99 (G13 Labs), Lithium OG Kush (Nirvana). I just harvested those, my second time to grow all of them.

Good reading material on the medicinal application of cannabis: (some of these articles are more technical than others):
https://www.konop.bg/uploads/file/Ca...erapeutics.pdf We are so lucky that this is available online!!! This is the guy (Mechoulam) who isolated the THC molecule.

https://www.420magazine.com/2010/03/...s-of-cannabis/ Excellent links to sources on specific ailments

http://profofpot.com/mechanisms-cann...ourage-effect/ Understanding cannabis synergy

https://herb.co/2016/10/03/high-cbd-low-thc-strain/

http://mychronicrelief.com/cannabis-101-thc-cbd/

https://www.projectcbd.org/science/t.../smell-mystery

https://www.projectcbd.org

Get an Ardent NOVA decarb machine if you want to make tinctures. It decarbs the bud perfectly and preserves terpenes. And read up on sublingual delivery: it's fascinating.

Around 6 or 7 of us on the forum all got one a couple of months ago. Here's the thread on the NOVA: https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ylator-machine

This is one article from their website; I've read pretty much everything they have posted: http://www.ardentcannabis.com/educat...xylation-myths
I just checked: the promo code WINTER is still working, and they cost $165 with the discount. I paid $170 for mine in Oct.

Finally, this is the starting point. If you're an experienced grower, great! If you are a newbie, read everything you can over on GWE. I'm a sophomore (began growing July 2016), a bit of a nerd as you can see, and I want to learn as much as I can about this amazing, cosmic goddess plant.

[alltatup]

Zomb your wife should try a vaporizer. I have tried many different ones, and my all-time favorite, the one that works best for me, is the Plenty by Storz Bickel. It has a huge bowl that I load and can return to 3-4 times to get high. She will fall in love with you all over again when you start making her tinctures! ;-}

[alltatup]

Paracelsus Yes I pasted that link to Mechoulam's landmark book. What was so fascinating to you??

[Paracelsus]

ATU Well first the synergy with the conversation and we had touched on Ayurvedic medicine

[alltatup]

Based on a month's worth of experimenting:

The tincture only gets me high in the morning on an empty stomach. If I take the same dose later in the day, I don't get high. I do not understand this... Perhaps someone else has insight.

[Paracelsus]

I have always found the same to be true, not only that but it is a longer lasting high that I can maintain with a couple of puffs every 6 hours or so. If I don't ingest early and on an empty stomach it takes much longer to hit me 2 - 3 hours and is a different kind of high and I smoke along the way. What I've read about the magic happening in the small intestine and not in the stomach might have something to do with it. What it is I don't know since you are ingesting sub lingual.

[alltatup]

Good points D.A.A.S.69 Paracelsus

Yes, I hold it under my tongue, but I swallow it afterwards. I am comforted knowing that that's how a little tincture works for others as well, that my endocannabinoid system isn't on the fritz. It also makes sense because folks usually get a much bigger dose when they do edibles. I, however, am not about to drink a bottle of tincture to see what happens.

DAAS, I sure hope Santa sees the ad; it is really such a great toy to play with!!!

[Cronk]

I've read a lot about how time of day, morning or evening, and whether your stomach is full or not has a lot to do with how your body metabolizes it. Even though you hold it under your tongue you still need to swallow it to get it through your system entirely. So some goes into your blood from your tongue and some though your digestive. It gets spread out over time and the effect is different than smoking. Think edibles. . I used THC gummies with my cbd drops and the effect there varies for me

[oldjarhead100]

@ Paracelsus your comment about the small intestine made alot of sense to me I dont do edibles because they take to long to work and I always wondered why well now I know I had a gastric bypass a few years ago and part of that process is to disconnect a portion of your small intestine. I eat straight wax before I go to bed to help me sleep because it takes 3 or 4 hours to work so that its working from midnight on . I did not take enough of it last night I was up at 2, 3 and up for day at 4;30

[Paracelsus]

Yes some lab reports that I can't recall all the details of but that is what they wrote.
Since I am semi retired I don't fight the circadian rhythm any more, I am a controlled diabetic without using meds. I get tired after eating and cat nap during the day a lot. I woke up after Dinner tonight at 1130 pm and do my research and reading then when all is quiet. I probably fall asleep again for a couple of hours around dawn. 8am ish. I am a night owl for sure.

[alltatup]

Paracelsus That is often when I get all my cannabis research done, too--around 3 or 4 in the morning. Listen to body (not "the" body): we know what we need.

[oldjarhead100]

a friend and I ran 2 lbs of duff though a Butane tube ,then boil off the butane (outside no flame,no direct contact with heat source) ,then when its thick enough we pull a vacuum on it to pull all the butane out . depending on the temp as you pull the vacuum desides if its wax ,shatter or oil. If you've never done this I dont recommend, it .very dangerous

[alltatup]

CBD REPORT

I've been using my THC tincture with CBD slab added for two weeks now. I think I can safely say that what's happening is not the placebo effect. Joint pain and inflammation are definitely decreased. It took a while for me to realize that the pain was lessening; it doesn't happen in one day. I also notice that my mood is calmer, more even-keeled than two weeks ago, and this can be a hard time of year for me.

I went for entourage effect directly by mixing the isolate into my THC tincture, so I can't comment on how industrial hemp CBD isolate works all by itself. I read a review of CBDistillery (where I bought my slab) in High Times, and the writer was also combining it with his own rosin.

https://hightimes.com/grow/strain-review-99-cbd-isolate-from-cbdistillery/

Adding the CBD to the tincture, as I wrote above, definitely changes the style of the high: it's much more relaxing and not as intense as the THC tincture by itself, which really packs a punch. Tomorrow morning I want to try some tincture without the CBD added and see what my reaction is at this point; I haven't had any straight THC tincture during this 2-week period.

I did something last night I ain't done in a minute: I packed a cone with Chemdawg into which I sprinkeled a little CBD and smoked it. Very nice high, slept well, woke up with pain around .5 out of 10 (not really worth mentioning, but I'm trying to be thorough for all my brother and sister geezers on the forum).

I am very excited and curious to see how the two high CBD strains I'm growing will compare with this industrial hemp isolate. I'm assuming that it will be much better, but I'm really grateful to CBDistillery for this product because I won't be harvesting until mid-late Feb. It really was the perfect time of year to experiment, because I'm in between semesters and don't have to fk with work until Jan. 16. I could not take the THC tincture and go to work, but I think I'll be able to take the CBD tincture and go to work.

[Cronk]

D.A.A.S.69 you can have it again

https://www.worldofseeds.eu/wos_en/colombian-gold-regular.html

[D.A.A.S.69]

I've already got 4different kinds of auto seeds from World of Seeds,

[oldjarhead100]

Thanks Cronk I think I will try some in the future

[Paracelsus]

I read the article in HT, congratulations. You have made big steps in determining what modalities of treatment for your symptoms are best for you. alltatup you have tackled the obstacles in front of you with clarity and no holds barred action committing to alleviating you own pain. Plus in the midst of your own dilemma you have taken a scholarly approach documenting and sharing info with others unselfishly as you go along. Great work.

[alltatup]

Hey thanks man! It's an on-going process, but at least these experiments with CBD isolate give me great expectations for the upcoming harvest in March.

[oldjarhead100]

My slap came in yesterday I think I will put some in with a joint of white widow and see what happens since it's only 530 am and legs are killing me already i'm going to try that soon lol

[Potted]

Wow,u guys are exploring uncharted territory here, since the government won’t allow testing,I feel we are all braking new ground.
Im still trying to determine the right dose and strain that suites my illness. I’m my own guinea pig!
I am looking into the not so distent future when mankind will take advantage of what nature has given us to use.
Weed has been used for a long longtime just because this government doesn’t approve DOES NOT MAKE IT WRONG !
sort of like prohibition,sooner or later the old guard will give in or die off.

[alltatup]

Potted Yes, we are our own guinea pigs. I have a long way to go, and sometimes my desire to get high interferes with my desire to find the right medicinal dose. I'm waiting impatiently for the real thing: the high-CBD plants I'm growing. I have the feeling that that experience will be entirely different from what I'm playing with now, because of how much THC the tinctures have in them.

[Potted]

Looking foward to report.......lol