Safer RSO?

[Jason]

I just tried something I've read about.
Soak leaves and trim in EverClear, strain, evaporate down to tar.
Place the tar on a Teflon pan and gently heat until it starts to bubble. That is when decarbo is happening as the 02 is bubbling off.
Stir gently with a pointed bamboo skewer. This is important as the tar skins over and does not release the 02 as quickly.

I put water in my little pan to see how low I could set my stove to get 212 F. LO was it. So I boiled this little bit of tar for some minutes until it stopped giving off 02.

Other than boiling off the EverClear over a stove, with resulting dangerous fumes, this seems like the same outcome as RSO
I forget where I read about this.

Taste tests will take place later today. I'll probably put some in a gel cap. I could image this stuff tastes like burnt, oily crap.

Anybody ever do this?

[Dutchman1]

Its going to be crazy strong. I wouldn't put much in each capsule. Im thinking like the size of a grain of rice and probably half that or less.

[Kpenn]

That makes me wanna try it now. Lol

[Kpenn]

That makes me wanna try it now. Lol

[alltatup]

I will be very interested in hearing about how your medicine works. How did the final tar smell? I hope it didn't smell burnt!!!

[Jason]

Attached is a photo of the gel cap. I guess that little bit is a grain or two of rice. Effect was milder than expected, but noticeable. Like a couple of beers with good body effects and mellow head.
No burning smell at such low temps and you can see when it stops bubbling, so you don't over cook. I had the over head fan on, but the smell was nominal.
Some hours in, I vaped a bit of the original tar and got bonked. So for a buzz, vape is very strong. The gel cap is more body, mellower and longer lasting.
If this had been made with the flower I use for the Golden Tiger, no doubt it would be much stronger.

[Dutchman1]

Im guessing it got overcooked and lost some potency. Your method is basically how they make RSO ( Rick Simpson oil) but careful temperature controls are used. With dispensary RSO a dose the size of a grain of rice is pretty potent.

[Dutchman1]

Just saw you used leaves too, that would reduce the potency substantially also.

[redbeard]

Hi all have made several batches of rso. Have done it with and without decarb first. If u get it to hot potency is lost.Helps me with my arthritis. Made coconut oil and been taking it for bout a week. I think for my pain I like it better.

[Jason]

Just saw you used leaves too, that would reduce the potency substantially also.

Yes, this was some fan leaves and trim, not near as potent as the flower I use for Golden Dragon.
I don't think it got over cooked, just C- green stuff to start with.
The heat was just boiling the water (212 F) at the edge of the pan, the tar bubbled slowly and evenly. I just kept pocking it with the bamboo stick to keep it bubbling.
If you don't do that, it skins over and traps the 02 trying to go away.
If anything, I may have under done it.

I may try a four gram batch of fine flower to see what effect that has.

[alltatup]

Great report, Jason! Good experiment!

[Canyon Grower]

Jason , I just made a batch of RSO a couple of days ago out of trim. I always decarb first, which saves you having to try and boil off the carboxyl group from thick oil. Pretty easy to damage the product that way. If you decarb first and reduce the extraction in a water bath, you never exceed the boiling temp of water making it much harder to damage. Just a thought.....

[Dutchman1]

Canyon, Im curious, How long do you need to keep it in the water bath for? Wont hours at 212 degrees still continue to slowly cook off THC and Terpenes?

[Canyon Grower]

Dutchman1 It usually only takes an afternoon to reduce the extraction to an oily goo. I put my crock pot on medium and it keeps the water at a gurgly quasi boil. I imagine terpenes can be driven off at these temps but I believe most cannabinoids are safely above this. I cant remember the exact temps that they boil at but we could look these up. In any event RSO isnt a very aesthetically pleasing substance, but it does do the trick. Its my 'go to' compound to add to baked goods.

[gbauto]

RSO will be much more potent than CCO. I began making RSO for my pain meds, it is very potent and tastes like crap so capsules are a plus. Dealing with getting 190 proof ethanol is a hassle for me. I even fabbed up a condenser to recover the alcohol. I switched to making CCO-I just finished cooking up this months batch. The process is MUCH easier and there is no danger of flames from the fumes. I use a rice cooker and an IR temp gun to monitor temps during the cook. My cooker will peak at 260 degF so I generally let it steep for a few hours and strain.

[jalapeno]

Would love to see picture or description of your tabbed up condenser! What is CCO?

Apparently 190 proof drinking alcohol is illegal in CA. I can only get 151 proof unless I drive 6 hours each way to Reno NV. I too want to recover the alcohol, and was thinking of either running the fumes through a coil of soft copper tubing in a bucket of ice, or buying a student lab style still (found one at a shop in San Jose with a 500ml boiling flask for $78). if it really matters that I use 190 proof, I can first distill the 151 proof alcohol in the same apparatus that I'll use to recover the the alcohol when I boil if off of the tar. With care, I should end up with water in the boiling flask, and very pure alcohol in the receiving vessel. Once that's done the first go round, I should be able to keep using the purer alcohol for subsequent batches of RSO.

[Dutchman1]

151 rum will do.

[gbauto]

CCO-Concentrated Cannabis Oil. Basically it's brewing a tea from bud but uses coconut oil instead of water as the solvent to brew. The cannabinoids bind to the oil and then you can use it for oral meds. https://www.420magazine.com/forums/c...tudy-hall.html Link has a very detailed discussion on what it is.

[jalapeno]

My understanding was that exposing the mixture to 100C while boiling off the alcohol would take care of decarboxylation. Is the issue here that you are just letting the alcohol evaporate at room temperature, and then need to heat the remaining tar to decarboxylate?

[alltatup]

https://organicalcohol.com/organic-cane-alcohol/

You can purchase 190 proof cane or grain alcohol online. IF they can ship to your state/country...

[alltatup]

jalapeno I found out that it would have cost me $240 for a gallon of grape alcohol!!! Forget it!!! Yes, I saw that organic stuff on Amazon, too. I ended up buying Everclear 190 yesterday.

As soon as my decarb machine arrives, I'm going to make some cool tincture. I may end up storing some of it in the freezer for months, but I will start testing it at 10 days.

[redbeard]

If u r goina build a still just make ur own alcohol. Don't know if I really want the mess in the bottom of my still. Have talked to guys that make large quantities in conventional stills. The super sciency way is with a fractional still. I've got my fall run of liquor mashing in . I'm at least goina make cold tincture with it .

[jalapeno]

@ redbeard: The still I have in mind would not be adequate for concentrating the alcohol, as is done when making home brew liquor. Given starting with 190 proof alchohol as a solvent, and very dry bud and trim, the still and process don't have to deal with the otherwise critical issue of driving out significant more alcohol than water. With very dry bud and trim, and keeping the temperature below 100C, by using a double boiler as a heat source, I expect that the escaping vapor will be pretty nearly as concentrated as the solvent which I started with. Rather than allow that vapor to boil off into the air, as described in many RSO recipes, I will use a lab style glass 'boiling flask', with a plug with a copper tube inserted through it. All the alcohol vapor will go into tube, which will be formed into a downward sloping spiral as it passes through a bucket of ice. The condensed output will run out the end (the downstream end of the coil will exit through a hole in the side of the bucket) into an empty glass bottle so I can use it again for the next batch. I had thought that I could also use this set up to first increase the proof of the 151 proof Everclear available locally, but once I did some research, I realized that this would require a more sophisticated apparatus, and more care, and experience to be successful. I've instead ordered 1 gal 190 proof organic grain alcohol from Amazon. Cost $135, but I hope to never need to replace it.

[Jason]

My understanding was that exposing the mixture to 100C while boiling off the alcohol would take care of decarboxylation. Is the issue here that you are just letting the alcohol evaporate at room temperature, and then need to heat the remaining tar to decarboxylate?

There are two basic ways of making decarbed oil.
Decarb leaf, trim or flower prior to extraction. What you extract is ready to consume.
Or decarb the resulting oil or oil/alcohol mixture after extraction. Extraction is NOT ready to consume, until you heat it to decarb.
For decarb temps and time, I go by a report I read by Dutch and Russian pharma folks. They concluded "110 for 110" is best. Meaning 110 C for 110 minutes. That's about 230 F for an hour and 50 minutes.
I have good luck with that time/temp schedule when making Golden Dragon out of decarbed flower.

I decarbed some oil as per an article I read and it worked well. Just weak leaf and trim.
I let the alcohol air evaporate, then cooked the oil in a little Teflon pan.

[jalapeno]

An article 'How to Make Medical Cannabis Oil' on this site indicated that the heating process using a double boiler will provide enough heat to take care of decarboxylation. However, I can't find anywhere else that indicates that the maximum temperature of 100C which can be achieved that way is sufficient. Every other recipe I've found recommends about 115.6C (240F) 'bake' first. I'm going to go that route, but doing it to the end product makes sense as well, and I can certainly see where it could be more convenient (less material to deal with).