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First grow...Possible Broad / Hemp mites? Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!

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    COCO COIR First grow...Possible Broad / Hemp mites? Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!

    ***Too Long, Didn't Read Version***
    About 7-8 weeks in. PH in 5.8, runoff 6.2.
    2 weeks ago noticed holes, rips in leaves. Can see yellowing around holes. Leaf discoloration, and bumpy, almost "bubbling", where discolored.
    New growth is gnarled, showing almost "burnt" tips. See pics at the end of album
    Album of pics:

    ***TL, DR Version***

    Hello everyone! So this is my very first grow, and I've been using GWE from day one. Love this site, and the forums! So incredibly helpful in starting to figure all this shit out, basically from square one.

    I'll start with the setup I'm running, and will try to give as much detail as I can.

    - Vivosun 48"x48"x80" Mylar Hydroponic Grow Tent
    - Apollo Horticulture GLK600LS24 600 Watt Grow Light / Digital-Dimmable HPS-MH System for Plants - Air Cooled Hood Set
    - Currently using 3 - 3Gal Smart pots, with plans to transplant the remaining from the plastic 3Gals, now that I have enough Smart Pots
    - 50/50 Coco Coir / Perlite mix, up to about 70/30 mix in some. First time, wanted to see what / if any difference
    - General Hydroponics Flora Grow, Bloom, Micro Combo Fertilizer set. Also recently added Armor Si and CaliMagic
    - 450 CFM Exhaust fan, connected to the hood, and exhausting out of the top, (started out with a 300 CFM and 90 CFM, even using both couldn't get desired results)
    - Temps inside tent are 72-75F during day, and 64-68F at night. (before upgrading to 450 CFM exhaust, temps had hit 91F, had to move an AC into the room to keep below 85)

    Start Date: Aug 1st, 2017
    Okay, so a few things I need to mention before I can even get to the current issues I'm having. When this all started, I was COMPLETELY unprepared for it. Basically, I found 24 seeds in a random bag, and figured I might as well try and germinate them, just to see what would happen. To my surprise, in just under 48 hours, using the sponge / paper towel germ method, 21 of them had popped out a nice 1-2 inch tap root already! So right off the bat, I DO NOT KNOW if these are female or not, and actually still to this day have no idea of the sex.

    Now I wasn't expecting so many to pop, and definitely was not expecting it to happen so quickly. I rushed to the nearest home improvement store to grab enough supplies to tide me over until my online orders came in with all the real equipment I would need. This was my first mistake, grabbing a "Grow Light" from the home improvement store. I threw all the seeds into some Jiffy pots and used a couple different Miracle Grow mixes to get them started. Again, not ideal, which I'm now aware of, but at the time I really didn't have any other options. So you'll see in the first few pictures that the seedlings began to stretch out pretty bad looking for light, as the 1500 lumens home improvement store "Grow Light" was not nearly powerful enough. They stretched out to a good 5-8 inches apiece before my new 600w ballast, hood, bulbs, and the tent all arrived. As soon as the new equipment arrived, I immediately set everything up, and transplanted the seedlings from the Jiffy pots into 3gal containers, and switched off of the Miracle grow to the Coco\perl mix.

    Because they were so stretched, allot of them couldn't even hold their own weight up, so i had to put in some small stakes to help support them. I also buried a decent part of the stretched out stems, as I had read on here it would promote root growth from that part of the stem. You can see in the pictures that when they are all switched to the new pots, they are much shorter, which is just the stems being buried.
    (I realize i may have transplanted them to the new pots a bit too early, but given the situation i was in, with the wrong soil and everything, i figured it would be best to get them into a proper setup ASAP)

    Transplanted into new pots: Aug 12th

    For the first week or two I watered using only plain, PH'd tap water. I didn't actually begin using any nutes at all until about week 3-4 at least, and even then I did so at 1/4 - 1/2 the recommended strength. All was going good, they were all bulking up pretty nicely, gaining new growth almost daily.

    They were all growing VERY slowly. By comparison to almost all the pictures I've seen of plants at the same age as mine, all of mine were / still are very small. I chalked it up to a rough start, and kept on anyways. This is all just a practice grow anyways. For all I know, these could all be males and have to be trashed regardless, but I figured while I wait for some new seeds to come in the mail I can run this grow and see what happens. If nothing else, for the experience before i try my hand at a hundred bucks worth of seeds.

    Aug 26th: The trouble begins
    So about 4 weeks in at this point, I had just started using nutes at 1/4 the recommended levels. Started using only the GH Trio for the first watering, plain PH'd for the second, then added Armor Si in with the trio for the third. I came in on the morning of the 26th, and found a few plants that had rips, or tears, in some of the leaves. I also noticed slight discoloration in some of the leaves as well. I looked EVERYWHERE for some type of pest that could be chewing on them, but still have yet to find any signs of anything. It was this week that I finally got the new 450 CFM fan installed, and got negative pressure with it. The discolorations weren't very bad, and my water was going in at a PH of 5.8, coming back out at 6.2. No signs of any other stress besides the new rips in the leaves.

    Aug 30th:
    I noticed now 4 of the total 8 remaining plants had some sort of tear, rip, or hole in the leaves in one spot or another. They still seem completely random. Only one or two on each leave, maybe one or two on those specific plants but nothing on the others. A little more obvious color changes in some of the leaves. A light green was appearing in between the veins, and sometimes it would even be a yellow or brownish color. Appeared to only be on the leaves, and only on the fleshy part between veins. I also started to notice a sort of "bubbling" on the leaves I guess you could call it? It seemed to me as if the spots where the holes/rips were, also happened to have this "bubbling" effect in the same place. You can see it in the pictures I'll be including. It's almost looks as if the leaves were doing this "bubbling" in random spots, which also changed the coloring around that specific area to a light yellow or even sometimes almost brownish, and then tearing or ripping because of whatever it is causing this happen. At this point I also added in the GH CaliMagic into my feedings, which are up to 1/2 strength and still switching to plain PH'd water every other time.

    Sept 1st:
    This morning I came in to find that the discoloration on the leaves had gotten much worse, and a few of the plants with holes or rips seemed to have a bit bigger rips in them as well. Still no signs whatsoever of any pests. Moved my fans around thinking maybe some wind damage could have caused the rips, even though it's very unlikely. I also started to notice that some of the new growth was coming in really gnarly. Some leaves were curved, twisted, and just plain ugly looking. Began to research as much as I could online to see what the causes could be.

    Sept 3-4th:
    After spending a few days researching as much as I possibly could, starting to think that I may have a mite problem. Do not currently have a loupe or microscope to be able to confirm, but based on the twisted growth and discolorations, which have both gotten worse, figured I had to try something. Also, some of the newest growth was developing brown, almost dried out, and crispy leaf tips. Based off what I could find on mites, cut off whatever I could that was looking really bad for leaves. Ended up having to shave some of them down to only a few fan leaves after removing anything that had these new "crispy" looking tips, or the discoloration.

    Sept 5th:
    Waited until "night time", my 6 hours off on my 18/6 light schedule, and COVERED everything inside the tent with a mix of 1 gal plain water, to 1oz "Central Coast Green Cleaner". Picked up the Green Cleaner at the local grow store. The ingredients of it are:
    39% Soybean Oil
    19% Sodium Lauryl Sulfate

    Inert %42:
    Water, Isopropyl Alcohol, Sodium Citrate, Citric Acid

    Used a hand sprayer, and completely doused the plants in this mix, and let them air dry with the fans over night. Hardly any residue or anything left behind at all.

    It has now been just about 3 days since I sprayed the Green Cleaner mix. Hard to say if it made much of a difference at this point or not. There is new growth, which doesn't seem to be quite as twisted, but it's kind of hard to tell. Had one leaf on just one plant that had a tip go completely white, which I will include in the pics. Beyond that, there's still a couple new "holes" or "rips" in the leaves in noticed this morning, but none of them look to me like bites of any sort, The way they're appearing ONLY at the exact same spots as the "bubbling" and discoloration makes me believe that whatever is causing those, is also causing the rips in the leaves.
    For all my research I THINK i have it narrowed down to either Broad mites, Russet Mites, or TMV, but honestly I'm just guessing based on the limited information i could find online. I was able to pickup some Neem Oil Extract today, which is 70% Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil, (Garden Safe is the brand), but am not sure if I should use it or not. I still don't even know if my problem actually is mites or not, and from what I've read on GWE Neem Oil can affect my little girls/guys allot even in small doses.

    I know this is is VERY long post, I just wanted to be as detailed as possible, as this is all a brand new experience for me. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated. I have already received my next batch of seeds the other day. Got 6 AK-48 Auto's, and 5 Aurora Indica Fem's from Nirvana Shop. But I would like to see this grow out, at least until I can determine the sex of each plant. Again, thanks in advance for ANY advice you guys can give. And if i left out anything at all, please let me know and I'll try to get it up here ASAP. I'm trying my best to keep these little ones going all the way, even if they all turn out male and have to be dumped. Like i said, this is all one big learning experience for me, and I'd like to get as much under my belt as possible before i try any of these expensive ass seeds I ordered online! Thanks for your time!

    (couldn't upload pics here, so I made a new album on Imgur and added what i could there. Pics are all in order by date, as you can see by the different pots, etc)

    Album of pics:
    Last edited by Pintyguy; 09-08-2017, 07:37 PM.

    Pintyguy , suggest you frame questions in smaller bites. Long posts are better once folks are discussing your question and exploring possibilities. Dont want to run them off you know😱. As they say pics are worth a thousand words....try to get some of your critter pests for us to see.
    Organic only soil grower
    Current: Medgom Auto (CBD Crew and (Grassomatic)
    Set up: 300w Galaxy hydro LED, DIY insulated growbox, dual thermostatic exhaust fans, dual circulation fans, thermostatic 300w heat, remote temp/humidity monitor.


      Lol sorry, I actually had this as a grow journal I've been working on, just edited to make it a question.

      But the problem is I can't see anything on them, or anywhere in the tent, and I've been looking. I ordered a Lupe but won't be here till after the weekend. So for now, just the pics of the leaves to go on. Any ideas based on those?


        Usually people give way too little info when asking for help! I think the only thing missing from all the info and photos you've supplied is, like CG said, if you could get a pic of the pests you have -- but if it's mites that could be difficult.

        I used neem oil earlier in my grow (2 applications) with no visible ill effects. From all reports you should be fine, especially this early on.

        The only helpful thing I have for you is please ignore the guy who posted on your imgur album and don't put urine on your plants.
        GWE on pissing on your plants (see myth #2 -- really should have been number 1 lol).
        My first grow


        • Pintyguy
          Pintyguy commented
          Editing a comment
          Yep that's what I was going for, trying my best to avoid the "need more info", as if you couldn't tell 😂

          What were you using the neem oil for on yours? Only 2 applications, and that did the job? From everything I've read it seemed like this was the start of an uphill battle, with multiple applications needed.(if it is mites I mean)

          Thanks for the quick responses though! Been stressing out over this. Need to at least keep em alive till I can tell whether they're M or F!😜

        • Aloner
          Aloner commented
          Editing a comment
          They're looking fairly good, damage aside. Your outook is good if you can get a handle on the pest situation. I had a problem with thrips and aphids but neither on the scale of what I would consider an infestation. I applied it twice and when I was still seeing the occasional thrip I ordered some spinosad. Wouldn't you know the day I ordered it was the last time I saw any thrips. I ended up using it a few weeks later when leafminers showed up.

          If you haven't already, check out the GWE symptom checker. The GWE page on broad mites doesn't show cuts in the leaves like you have ("you don't see bites on the leaves").

          I'm only on my first grow so take what I say with a grain of salt. Hopefully someone who's had what you have will post here soon!

        Hello Pintyguy , excellent description of what's going on with your plants , much rather have to much information than not enough. Have you noticed any moths around?? Next time you are at your plants give each one a quick shake an see if you see anything. P.S. you have done a great job so for..
        Cfls for a week or two
        315lec for everything else
        Dug up Ms.topsoil, with perlite added
        36x36x63 inch tent.
        6inch - exaust - intake fans an scrubber
        Smart pots


        • Pintyguy
          Pintyguy commented
          Editing a comment
          Hello! Thank you very much! I'm trying to learn everything I can with this "test grow", so I really appreciate that!
          As for the moths, I've never seen one even in the grow room, nevermind the actual tent. I just recently upgraded to the big 450 CFM exhaust fan, and now leave one of the bottom holes on the tent open for a passive intake. But this all started a week or so before I got the big exhaust, and back then everything was always closed, or had an air duct in it at least. Would moths be able to cause the discoloration as well as the holes we're seeing?

        The caterpillars would.
        Cfls for a week or two
        315lec for everything else
        Dug up Ms.topsoil, with perlite added
        36x36x63 inch tent.
        6inch - exaust - intake fans an scrubber
        Smart pots


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