DWC seedling - Very twisted, light-colored. - Clueless

[JohnC]

Hey folks,

I'm hoping for some good advice this morning.

I am growing in a DWC for the first time and may be running into some sort of problem. Here are some details:

• Strain: Berry Bomb (Indica-dominant hybrid, feminized seed from Bomb Seeds)
• Medium: Hydroton in net pot; 10-gallon reservoir with 5 gallons water.
• Light: G8LED 240-watt full-spectrum LED; suspended 20 inches above net pot.
• Light schedule: 19 hours on / 5 hours off.
• Nutrients: GH Flora Trio (FloraMicro, FloraGro, FloraBloom), also using CalMag and HydroGuard.
• Temps / Humidity: Temps are consistently at 70-75 degrees during the day and mid-60's at night. Humidity staying in the low 40's.
• Seed placed in net pot on 08/06/2017

My seedling popped above the net cup about 10 days ago now. At this point, she has her first set of true leaves and is working on her second. However, the leaves look somewhat mottled, twisted, and maybe a little on the light-colored side. Only light nutrients have been fed up to this point. At the last reservoir change 5 or so days ago, I gave her 4ml of FloraMicro, 4ml of FloraGro, and 3ml of FloraBloom. In addition, I added 4ml of CaliMagic and 10ml of HydroGuard. The roots look great and there is no sign of root rot.

Since this is my first time with a DWC, there have been some growing pains. My water PH has varied between 6.0 and 6.4, though I know I really need to get it down lower. Today, the water PH is sitting at 6.17.

So here are my thoughts and I hope someone here will straighten me out if I'm wrong. I think the problem might be some sort of nutrient deficiency. Since the water has never been below a PH of 6.0, I thinking she might be lacking a bit in iron, calcium, and maybe manganese.

So today I am due a reservoir change and my thoughts are to PH the water down to about 5.5. In addition to the lower PH, I am bumping up my nutrients a bit (per my schedule), though still at about 1/4 strength. My hopes are the plant will be better able to absorb those particular nutrients that might be lacking.

Please folks, tell me what you think. Am I proceeding correctly? Should I do something different?

[alltatup]

Hi JohnC, Very strange leaves!!! I grow DWC and I do indeed let my pH fluctuate between 5.6 and 6.4, so if your roots look good, and if your sure that your pH meter is reading accurately, I think your plan is a good one. If you lower it to 5.5, and the next day it's at 6.3 or so, lower it again. Just be careful not to over-nute.

[DW2]

Howdy JohnC, I use the GH Maxi Series of nutrients and use the GH feeding schedule (for recirculating DWC) which only shows a reduced feed for the first two weeks only, then full strength. I have had plants that the first leaves came out looking like kale, all crinkly and wrinkled, but they came out of it. The photos look, to Me, to be that the plant is not getting enough. With all that You list on Your feeding schedule, I would not expect a deficiency, but lack of amount. Another couple of things to look at. How many air stones and what amount of air are You putting into the reservoir water? The lack of proper aeration can cause a multitude of problems , and how warm is the reservoir water? It should be kept between 65° and 70° F.
Good luck with Your grow.

[JohnC]

First off, thanks guys for responding.

DW2 - Like you mentioned, I think I haven't been feeding enough at her stage of growth; perhaps I am being too cautious about over-feeding or creating a nutrient imbalance.

For air stones, I am using two large air stones being fed by a dual outlet air pump (EcoPlus 2, 126gph) so I'm confident the water is well oxygenated. My reservoir temps have been staying at 70 to 71 degrees F. As mentioned earlier, the roots appear good and healthy and are well down into the reservoir.

alltatup - For my PH meter, I'm using a cheap pen-type meter that I purchased on Amazon. It seems to be pretty reliable. I have GH calibration solutions (4.0 & 7.0) and I've chosen to calibrate my meter weekly prior to doing my reservoir changes. So I'm fairly confident my PH meter should be OK.

For water, I am using RO water. I've attached the feeding schedule I am using. I used the GH website to first build a full-strength feeding schedule based on 5-gallons in the reservoir and then I cut the numbers a bit to arrive at my 1/2-strength and 1/4 strength numbers. Today, I'll use my "Week 2 - Early Growth" line at 1/4 strength (more than doubling the nutrients she got last week). If I don't see any improvements within a few days, I'll do another reservoir change, adding nutes at 1/2 strength and hope for the best. Note that all numbers are in total MLs per 5 gallons of water. I use a syringe to ensure spot-on measurements.

Thanks again, folks. If anyone has any suggestions as to well else I might be doing, please let me know.

[alltatup]

Wow, John, it really sounds like you're doing everything correctly. Try the pH fluctuation and see what happens for a week.

[DW2]

One more bit of advice, I have found that changing too many things at a time and changing them too quickly can cause problems (I know that it did on My first two grows). It sounds like You have a well thought out plan, so just try it and let the plants do 'their thing'.
Good luck with Your grow.

[alltatup]

DW2 very good point! Sometimes I panic and want to change 3 things all at once, which won't help with the advancement of my scientific knowledge!!

[JohnC]

HI again, folks. I really need some advice on this.

Here's the plant three days after changing my reservoir, upping the nutrients a small amount in hopes of correcting what I believed to be a nutrient deficiency. As you can see from the pics, she does not look very well and there has been no improvement from 3 days ago.

Areas of the leaves look kinda light-colored and the twisting is still very pronounced. Am I still being too light on nutrients or is there another problem accounting for this? (My feeding schedule is attached in a message above and I am on "Week 2 - Early Growth" of my schedule with nutrients at 1/4 strength.)

I'm ready to call it quits on this whole "DWC" thing and go back to soil where at least I think I know what I'm doing.

Can someone please help me here? Is this plant salvageable? What could I be doing wrong?

[DW2]

JohnC, I was just thinking (right, scary! LOL), does the LED light that You are using have a veg/flower switch? I use CFLs so I am not familiar with LEDs, but could the lamp be in the wrong spectrum?

[JohnC]

DW2 - No, the LED light I am using is supposed to be a "full spectrum" lamp that I can use during both flowering and veg. I've used this particular lamp for the past several grows and have not experienced any issues.

I thought, well, maybe my height is wrong. But I checked that and I'm good. My light is at 18" above the leaves and the manufacturer recommends 12 to 24 inches.

[JohnC]

NebulaHaze - Would you mind weighing in on this issue?

[JohnC]

Could it be the water I'm using? I'm using RO water purchased from WalMart (PRIMO brand). According to the water quality report from PRIMO, the water has no more than 22 ppm dissolved solids.

[Herbs n Stuff]

HI, I had been growing in organic soil and had pretty good results. But after talking with others that had personal experience with soilless growing, I decided to try coco and pearlite. Long story short, I was having pretty good luck with both up to a point. The I started having problems with the pearlite. So I visited my local hydroponics shop. He has been in the business for 25 years. Incredible amount of knowledge. One of the things we discussed was water. Straight tap water is all he uses. BUT since the tap water he uses contains chloramine, he uses the same stuff that you need to use in fish tanks to get rid of chloramine. Chloramine is not harmful to plants, but it does kill all the bacteria (good and bad) in the water (that is why they put it in the public drinking water systems) and any bacteria that may have built up in soilless grows. He prefers tap water since it contains most of the trace elements that plants need, and it is hundreds of times cheaper than any bottled water. Water with chlorine can just sit in an open container for at least 24 hrs and the chlorine will evaporate. So if anyone is considering growing soilless or organic, getting rid of chloramine and/or chlorine is an absolute must if you want to take advantage of good helpful bacteria. Even if you grow outdoors, your soil contains bacteria. Once you use water containing chloramine, you are killing the bacteria. It takes about 2 or 3 days for the bacteria to repopulate. But that is 2 or 3 days your plants are deprived of the good helpful bacteria.

[DW2]

Howdy Herbs n Stuff, (weren't You part of an R&B group back in the 70's? LOL). I agree with what You said. I have been using tap water (pH'ed to 6.0) for all of my grows. I, however, do not use anything to counter the chloramine because I grow in a DWC with out any pearlite to react with the chloramine (or the chlorine). The chloramine has not been a problem for Me as I do not use any Hydroguard (or stuff like it) to control the algae, I just aerate the reservoirs very well and block out all of the light leaks that I can.
Good luck with Your growing.

[JohnC]

Well, here we are a few days later. If you look at the latest pics, the latest set of leaves coming in look a bit better than the previous ones, though I think they are still a little on the light-colored side.

With my air & water temps and water PH all continuing to look OK, I have to assume the plant is not getting enough nutrients.

I'm not due for another reservoir change until Sunday at which time I plan to bump up my nutrients to half-strength (instead of 1/4 strength).

Does that sound like a reasonable plan or should I look at changing out the reservoir a few days early?

[DW2]

JohnC, don't make too many changes at once, because it will be difficult to know which one did the trick. The only other suggestion I can make would be to add a little iron (ironite, or iron sulphate) to the feed mix. Iron is necessary for good green leaves in a plant.
Good luck on Your grow.

[Obi-Wan]

I also use the GH Flora trio and have just recently switched to rdwc. I feed my plants approximately the same (+/- 1ml) as you have been thus far with the exception of the MagiCal, I give 20ml per 5gal in tap water at this stage and reduce to 10ml during transition. Some say the MagiCal is even more important if you use RO water.

[JohnC]

Well folks, I think I've found the problem. My old PH meter.

I was using one of those $15 pen-type meters that I bought on Amazon almost a year ago. I've been calibrating it every week prior to doing my reservoir changes so I thought I was good to go. I have GH 4.0 and 7.0 calibration fluids and everything seemed fine with the meter. Until today.

The old meter had a two-point calibration process where you would first calibrate at 7.0 and then calibrate at 4.0. Today, no matter how I tried, I could not get the meter to calibrate. I could calibrate at one point, calibrate at the second point, and the first point would then be way off. I'd then try to re-calibrate that first point again, and then the second point would be way off. I'd go back, recalibrate that second point again, and wouldn't you know it, the first point was way off again. At that point (no pun intended), I said the hell with it and chucked the meter in the trash.

I just came back from my local Hydro store to inquire about PH meters. They were very helpful and had several to choose from. I came home with a PH pen from Blue Labs: http://www.getbluelab.com/shop/By+Ca...ab+pH+Pen.html. I'm familiar with the BlueLabs name and I'm hoping I have a decent and reliable pen this time.

This morning, I did another reservoir change, PH'd my water to 5.8, and am hoping to see a bit of a plant recovery this week. Wish me luck.

[DW2]

That is why I use the short range (4.5 - 9.0)dual panel test strips. No calibration, batteries, and self compensating for the temperature. Depending on the manufacturer, You may have to wait up to ten seconds to read the results, but I never have to worry whether the pen is working or not.
Glad that You found the culprit! Good luck with Your growing.

[JohnC]

DW2 - Thanks for that pointer. I think what I'll do is keep a supply of those PH strips on-hand. If I ever suspect some sort of PH issue, it will be easy to double-check the accuracy of PH meter.