Question on supplements

[kirkc]

I would like to ask the forum if they have any scientific evidence on the efficacy of supplements. I'm talking about amino acids, sugars, etc. I noticed on my Sunday email from Nebula that she seemed positive about the use of molasses and amino acid supplements as something that enhances or increases the terpenes of bud. To the extent of my knowledge on the subject, sugars cannot enter the plant through the root system. All of the scientifically reviewed literature that I can find talks about the ATP process of how plants are able to absorb chemicals other than water (which is driven by osmotic pressure and totally separate from nutrient uptake) does not make it possible to allow sugars to enter the plant. I decided to check on amino acid absorption. The "scholarly articles" as google described them all associate amino acids in the soil as a source of nitrogen for the plant. So the nitrogen in the amino acid is broken down in the soil just like any other nitrogen source. I don't want to sound like a cynic, but it appears to me that a lot of marijuana growers are suffering from the placebo effect when it comes to soil vs hydroponic and "magic" substances that can make your grow so much better. Good scientific references to the contrary would be greatly appreciated.

[insomniaczzz]

hmmmmmm, food for thought. I used very little supplementation during my recent grow. None at all during veg period. We did use a nutrient rich soil. I did use a diluted bloom supplement once a week during flower cycle, alternating with plain water. Now I do have to say that while I think we had very healthy plants, we did not get a huge harvest. I attribute this, however, to the fact that I did no topping or LST, so 3 of our 4 plants had that classic Christmas tree look. We also had perfect pH throughout so never had to adjust for that.

[kingfish]

I use molasses in the last 2 weeks of flowering. Whether it does any good or not I couldn't scientifically prove it. But I think it does, so there for, for me it works. Placebo, maybe but it gives me positive energy to put in my grow and that is what makes it work. I WANT IT TO WORK. The potassium doesn't hurt either.

[insomniaczzz]

Oops. I did forget to mention that I also used molasses three times during the bloom cycle.

BTW, now that the buds are in jars, I can already tell that the aroma is changing. Mellowing and becoming more pleasant. I know once upon a time I had asked why they had to be cured once there were dry. I am finding that answer out for myself. If it effects the smell, I will assume it also effects the taste.

[Royal Nugs]

I understand where you're coming from Kirk. I think the molasses is considered more of a simple carbohydrate for feeding microbial life. Why people add it the last couple of weeks confuses me as well. If it is used as a microbial food you would think it would be used the entire grow.

Amino acids are an anti stress agent and natural chelator. I think the idea behind amino acids are to allow the plant to ignore stress and focus it's energy on growth. I think this is why products like superthrive work so well.

There seems to be plenty of snake oils out there that provide marginal improvements in plant development. Deciphering what works and what doesn't, what's necessary and what isn't can be a daunting prospect to say the least. This is why communities like ours can discuss these things and hopefully determine their efficacy.

Thanks for rattling the cages

[kirkc]

Thanks everyone for understanding where I was going with my post. People who have been growing for many years have many "things that work" that just do not make sense to me. I don't want to discount what they are saying is not true, I am just trying to make the claims make scientific sense.

Here is another one that I am trying to figure out. Every non-scientific source talks about the need to do a flush for at least the last week of bloom, and every one talks about the necessity of getting the PH right. My question is: why does PH matter if there are no nutrients in the solution (talking hydro here).

[Royal Nugs]

I think the thought process behind this one is that there are still nutrients being used up during flush. If you lockout one of those nutrients by providing imbalanced ph water the plant won't be able to process said nutrient and it will stay in the plant.

I dont know if this is why but it's the only thing I can think of. My harvest earlier this year was flushed for 8 days using plain tap water. My tap water is 8.3 ph and I saw no ill effects. My last harvest I did flush with ph'ed water only because I was making calibrated water for my veg plants.

I don't think it makes a difference, maybe soil/soilless is different.

[Jibblerjoe]

I grow outdoors, I used alaska fish for veg, switched to Alaska bloom time release at and during flower. plants go in holes in the ground, unknown strains. I don't belive any supl. we're needed

[Nartak]

But I think it does, so there for, for me it works. Placebo, maybe but it gives me positive energy to put in my grow and that is what makes it work.

Spread that green lovin all over

[DW2]

No greater truth had been spoke!

[kirkc]

Great post Nartak! You've got to be an old dude like me to remember the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.

[Soilscience]

Hey Kirkc, I agree that there is a real mix of stuff that probably works, maybe works, and doesn't work. What I have noticed is that there is a huge body of experience that has built a very robust system for growing. I think it highly likely that there are some things that are not necessary, but overall, these systems work. I just posted a new topic about molasses for instance. It probably works. But I am guessing that it works for reasons that are different than suspected. Sugar temporarily increases microbial activity. During this upswing in soil activity, the microbes will use other nutrients, especially nitrogen. So it may be acting something like a flush does in hydro. Reducing N in the final weeks of flowering could very well "sweeten" the bud. But the main thing is that somewhere along the way some growers tried it, believe in it, and it worked. That's what I love about this whole thing.

[Potted]

I've been using mo. In my grows from veg. To flower for years works well as long as its not overdone 1/4 tea per gal. Lol

[Soilscience]

Potted, I assume you're in soil. What is your source of nitrogen?

[Flockshot]

I am happy that there are people out there challenging the limits of our knowledge about the plant and the growing of it, from a scientific perspective. I just don't happen to be one of them. What I need is to learn from people challenging the limits of our knowledge about the plant and the growing of it, from a growers perspective. There is room for all of us.

[DW2]

I have tried several of the 'miracle' supplements and have had no obvious benefits, or worse, root rot! (hydro grow). The best advice I have received so far is from Ms. NebulaHaze, to use products from the same manufacturer because they ,most likely, have been tested together. My current grow (all GH products) is doing better then the previous grows.
Good luck with your grow and "Keep on a truckin' "