Effects of 'Manifolding' on Seed Development?

[McDdd]

Having read the cannabis manifold 'Mainlining' article (http://www.growweedeasy.com/manifold), I've decided to put it into practice. The grow I'm currently planning, however, will be for seed in the first instance. (We can't have seeds delivered here, so it's important to hold adequate stock, which we haven't got now; a situation we are determined to avoid again.) While manifolding may be fantastic for bud development in unfertilized female plants, what effects will it have on seed production? Both males and females will be growing together (Hopefully, unless by some most unfortunate coincidence five seeds don't produce 1xmale+1xfemale.) in this grow. The males will be pulled after they've shot their load and begun to die back, leaving the females to gobble down the light. Would it be wise to leave them with a bit more foliage than would normally be left in a manifold grow to ensure they have adequate resources to develop seed, or is there no real difference in terms of resources required between developing resin and developing seed?

[IanHale]

I read this article last night.

http://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-make-feminized-marijuana-seeds

only the bids pollinated will produce seeds

[McDdd]

Thanks for your reply, but that's not really the question. If there is a male in the tent ALL the females will be pollinated, and ALL of their buds will contain seed.

Apart from our need to build stock, I don't think that's such a bad thing from our point of view: 1) don't really need THC in the proportion people have become accustomed to; 2) we still get plenty stoned on seedy weed (I guess that's the same as 1, really...) 3) a plant that has fulfilled its life cycle completely by achieving its ultimate goal, which is to produce seed, I feel, should be a healthier, happier plant than one which is incarcerated in a mylar cage to develop into something which would be virtually impossible to find in the wild. I don't need to ask the mushroom to imagine how everything might feel better for the plant which has been given the freedom to develop as evolution has taught it, rather than being subjected to man('s intelligence). But that's just me. I don't grow for money, so I can afford to indulge silly, self-aggrandizing ideas, feel superior about them and even show off about it. It just doesn't make me very popular. Gee, I wonder if that might be part of the reason why I have no friends? Duh!

[McDdd]

Yes, alltatup, you're right and I'm sorry. In retrospect, I was embarrassed to see how patronising that statement was. I've edited now with a touch of self-immolation.

[McDdd]

No, POKEDSMOT, you're right; 'perversion' was the wrong word. I've edited it now.

[GanjaGed]

Man, If I had a dollar for everytime I've said something and gone whoops that's not how that was supposed to sound, well let's just say I could smoke us all out for a month or two, lol.

[oldjarhead100]

hey MCDdd if there is a male in the tent yes all the females will get pollinated ,the seeds they produce will be regular seeds both male and female.. If you go that root then pick yourself up a copy of george cervesties bible in it he tells you that if when the seedling get their third set of leaves you can introduce out side influences to give you more females than males . increase N, increase humidity ,increase light. I will check the spelling when I head downstairs if its wrong and it probably is I will bring it upstairs and post it for you in am. I tried this with a friend each had 10 seeds he got 2 females I got 7

[GanjaGed]

I have no info on that, but do have a couple thoughts, lol.

In general it should all be pretty much the same, manifold vs natural, pollenation is pollination after all

The one concern I might have is that manifolding is stressful on the plant. Plants have several "coded" dna instructions that only unlock under different specific stressing. Herm'ing is an example, all cannabis plants can go herman on you but it only happens if stressed in certain ways and each way releases a different dna instruction. And according to what I've read this active instruction is passed to the next generation/seeds.

I'm not sure what that means or would activate, if anything, in a manifolded plant, possibly nothing, possibly increased rebound from defoliation/damage stress, possibly something less desirable?

Again this is just opinion based on research I was doing concerning breeding, so it's subject to my misinterpretation, their misinformation, etc.

I'd love to hear the results and any prominent differences you see when you sprout the seeds.

All in all I don't think it'll change anything, but something to consider, best of luck!

[McDdd]

Thank you, OldJarHead!

Actually, I'm not too concerned about the number of males or females. I just need at least one of each. From experience, I know a good, strong female will produce more than enough seed to keep us going for a long, long time. To be quite honest, I can't say any more precisely than that because the last time I grew for seed I didn't bother to check how many seeds had come from how many plants. I didn't even persevere to count the seeds, but gave up counting at around about 500. There were two males in the room (The setup was different then - no tent.) and eight females. Of course, it would be bloody tough luck to get five females this time when there's only room for five plants in the tent; everyone else's dream come true, my bloody nightmare! It's not impossible or even incredibly unlikely: because cannabis relies on the wind to dissipate its sperm dust, not insects like bees, the ratio of females to males is about 65 to 35%. So, out of five plants... It wouldn't be incredible. But we'll have ten seeds, so for the same thing to happen twice in a row... Now, that would be incredible. Let's just hope for 100% germination and no unfortunate acts of God (like man making up silly laws).

You're right about stealth – it is the key. The thing I don't get is how the hell you can think you're enjoying anything like stealth if, "I tried this with a friend..." Don't fool yourself: a friend, however much you might love each other, is a very, very weak link (which completely voids any delusions of stealth). Are you sure it's wise to have a picture of yourself online like that here? (You look like me!) Having said that, there's no point deluding myself – my picture's not much better.

[McDdd]

That's a damn good thought, GanjaGed – thank you! Yes, I've had hermies as a result of stress and it's very difficult to determine which stress factor (heat, light contamination, cycle interruption, or a number of other possibilities) causes them to go hermie. A combination of all, most likely. But you've focussed my attention on the most obvious stressor in manifolding: defoliation. Yes, it's a job to know how the DNA might react as a result of any particular stressor, although some fairly accurate guesses might be made. I think your "...increased rebound from defoliation/damage stress..." is a good example of a good guess. Just how that might manifest is another thing, which could, in fact, turn out to be not such a bad thing. It would be interesting, anyway.

I'm afraid I probably won't keep the forum posted on results of this grow. We're watched very carefully here. I may be paranoid (but Snowden would seem to have revealed that I'm not) but I'm sure every click and word is duly noted and recorded. I think it's OK as long as we (here) don't show off about how clever we are to thumb our noses in the face of authority; I think we'll be left alone as long as I don't start selling, for example. But every post takes something out of the credit we have with those who watch us. I won't post unless I really feel some input from outside is more likely to be helpful than it is to be dangerous. I'm quite happy to communicate privately, however; if you really want to know how it works out, send me a PM.

[alltatup]

McDdd You DO have friends on this forum: we're all in this together!!! I appreciate the apology. And it's too bad if you feel constrained from participating on this forum.

[McDdd]

McDdd You DO have friends on this forum: we're all in this together!!!

That's very kind of you, thanks!

McDddI appreciate the apology. And it's too bad if you feel constrained from participating on this forum.

Yes, it's unfortunate, but it is my own choice: I left the States many years ago and have ended up under very much more tightly-controlled circumstances. (Though I suspect you may be more carefully watched there than you'd like to believe.) I'm not complaining: I like it here and, most importantly, I'm convinced I've been able to raise kids here much better than I would have been able to under different circumstances. Money isn't as important here, though, like everywhere subject to globalisation, that's changing fast. There is a price to pay, however, and a large part of it is about not sticking your head above the parapet. This is difficult for me, having a big head with matching mouth and all... That's part of why I might feel a bit too free here sometimes and get a bit carried away shooting it off.

[alltatup]

I try to be cautious and smart without being paranoid.

[McDdd]

Yes, it's job, isn't it – a real tightrope balancing act!

[McDdd]

Here's the plan I was thinking of when I wrote last night. It's not perfect(ly symmetrical or balanced), but I'm not a graphic designer and this was drawn with a word-processing program (Pages). Plants don't grow perfectly symmetrically or evenly-balanced, anyway.

[McDdd]

Probably better to upload that as JPEG?

[McDdd]

Couldn't leave it alone: added the lighting here.

I have actually got six of those 28w LED's on order... The 'UFO' is suspended at three points, which I'd intended to utilise to hang the 28w's. Another three certainly looks better on paper – much more well-balanced – prettier; but it will be a job to fix the buggars... And is it really worth it; are they really needed?

[McDdd]

New and improved (again):

[McDdd]

Here it is on the basis of 5x⌀20cmx25cm (⌀7.87"x9.84") fabric pots. That means two-gallons. Has anyone got experience of using two-gallon pots? What's it like? What happens when they get root bound; they just stop growing? Are they able to flower like that?

I've put all of the 6x28w LED's in here, as well. Don't know how the hell I'm going to rig them up (Jerry-rigged wiring is one of the most off-putting things about the whole endeavour. And it's why the wife closed the whole thing down last time.) but I'll find a way.

[McDdd]

Actually, although I couldn't do this with dinner plates on the kitchen table, because fabric pots are soft they can be squeezed together, so I could, in fact, get 5x three-gallon pots in there if I get rid of the manifold frame; just need to put a ring with holes in it at the top of the pot to fix ties for training. (Actually, that would probably work better than the frame, in any case, anyway.) Does this look like the best setup?

Questions, comments, suggestions? All feedback welcome.

[Aloner]

With fabric pots, cramming them together like that would, I think, increase the risk of mold/mildew because the sides will dampen every time you water. You want air circulation on all sides.

[McDdd]

Good point, thanks.

I need to see what 1x 2-gallon in the middle, surrounded by 4x 3-gallons would look like, then; and/or vice versa, i.e. 3-gallon in the middle surrounded by 2-gallons. But that will have to wait until tomorrow now.