Introduction and Question about Nutrients/pH Levels

[AlexPanth]

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking on this site for a while now and have found tons of useful information, so I wanted to introduce myself and thank the community for providing so much information to aspiring growers like myself.

I'm Alex and I am planning on starting my first grow soon (nothing serious as I don't have much space, so probably looking at a few plants to start off with) so I wanted to look at some of the most common issues people experience so that I can be prepared when something (inevitably) goes wrong . I've decided to try growing hydroponically and am in the process of setting up a grow space... but there's so much information that I feel slightly overwhelmed.

From what I’ve read, most of the issues seem to be caused by incorrect pH and nutrient levels. Do you guys agree with that? To me it seems that some of the other things you have to worry about are relatively straight forward (lights, temperature, ventilation, etc) but I'm getting a bit overwhelmed reading about all the different things that one has to be aware of when it comes to maintaining proper pH levels and nutrients. Do you guys have any general advice that I should keep in mind? Specifically when it comes to nutrients, I see a lot of information on different types of deficiencies, but it seems difficult to keep track of all of these individually. Is there a mix that people recommend using that takes into consideration all the different nutrients? Thanks for your insights!

[Canuck147]

Hi Alex - Welcome to the forum - I myself grow in soil, but when it comes to pH it is a very important subject and proper pH should always be maintained.
Only insight I can give you right now is to buy quality seeds, spend a little more and get feminized. For a first grow good genetics will reward you in your drying and curing process, but first you have a few more steps to take.
There are a lot of excellent hydro growers here, so take it to heart what they tell you.

[PigSquishy]

Hi Alex, I love helping people to set up their own hydro systems, and believe me there is plenty of different ways and types, the basics for everything are straightforward. One thing people sometimes overlook in a hydro setup is allowing light to get into the water, in other words make sure you wrap or otherwise cover the container where the plant roots and water is to ensure no light gets in there or you will get algae. As far as nute issues goes, the bigger the res for each plant the less changes and effects you will see on the res. For example if 10-plants are being grown in 10-gallons of water total, each plant gets 1-gallon of water basically and will influence the shifts in the EC-TDS-PPM's of the nute solution, as well as the pH will be more likely to swing up and down; but if you have 2-plant in the same system each plant get 5-gallons of water basically and the shifts in the nute water will not be nearly as big or as fast.

The next big issue with nutes being off balanced comes from the water you start with, people think water is water, but it's not... Well water will have different nutrients in it, as will different tap water, and it varies from place to place, just think of Flint, Michigan as a great example. Even the water from the street to your house can be different, like if you still have lead pipe bringing water to your house from the Main Water Supply in the street. When a fertilizer company sells you their product they more or less expect you are starting with 0-PPM water and thus this is everything you need, which is why some people will run RO Water in hydro, but if you have a water softener in your house that too can affect the water your plants get. So either people will buy RO Water from a store for pennies on the dollar per gallon usually around $.83 a gallon average, or they might buy an RO System for their place, and still others just say it doesn't matter and will fight whatever nute issues arise by just using tap/well water and dealing with whatever is in there. You can buy an at home water test kit to do a test yourself for different things in your water, one test is for Radon, another for lead, another for the various basics in the water, another you can send into the lab and pay even more to get detailed resulted. You can get the City report for your water, people with wells here take their samples into the County office to get it tested for them to make see what adjustments to make.

Another big thing I tend to see a lot is those who just think they can save money by running their nute solution until it is almost completely gone, or there are those who just keep adding to it, and adding to it the entire plant's life cycle. Now if you change out your entire hydro water every 7-days, keep the water temps 60-65 F to keep down algae, bacteria, etc... keeping light out of the water to prevent algae from feeding on both the oxygen and the nutrients in the res water, and either have a good water supply (150-ppm or less) or are using RO water then chances of running into issues can be reduced. Then there are times when a certain individual plant or a strain will want more of a nutrient than another one might, and you will have to make some adjustments. When a person switched from HPS to a very powerful LED light they had to increase the Magnesium in their plants because the way the new LED light affected their plants. So how do you know how much of all of this really applies to you as a hydro grower and is it worth it in the end?

The idea is simply this, you build your system the best way you think is going to work for you, and when you run into an issue look at the basics and start trying to figure out why you have an issue and what you need to do to fix that issue if it is a serious enough issue that you need to fix it. The best author I've found in all my years was Ed Rosenthal "The Marijuana Grower's Handbook" because he teaches you everything you really need to know about growing, he has a couple of other books on showing people's gardens and how they grew hydroponics in foam and water and other off the beaten path things to make a couple hundred $$$ setups work to grow cannabis in closets. How simple or complex your system will in the end help either prevent problems or it could lead to problems you have to take another step to fix, if you have an issue there is always plenty of people happy to help you figure out the problem and to try to help you fix it. So in the end what I always try to encourage people is to read the basics by Ed Rosenthal, then come here because Nebula Haze makes everything make so much more sense and fills in so many blanks to bring you up to speed with things today in all the smallest details. In time it will all make sense for you after a couple of grows and you get a hands on feel for what is going on.

In the end a good pH Meter will save you a lot of hassle and time, some will tell you the pH - PPM's - pH 24/7 with constant readings over a pH Pen which you have to turn on and stand there to check it, just make sure you keep your pH Meter(s) calibrated and stored as you are suppose to, it is perhaps the most important part of any hydroponic system. When shopping around know that some need to be stored "dry" with the cap on, some need to be stored in water, others in a calibration solution... as that can increase the cost of running some models over other brands.

[bobsakamoto]

first, welcome! and good job getting prepared before/in case something happens... and i SO feel you on feeling overwhelmed. i was right there with you on that (and still am at times ) just a few months ago.

one thing i'd wish i'd known/understood fully at the beginning was that pH is not just important, it's VERY important--maybe equally as important as, say, lighting. the reason why is because pH *determines* nutrient uptake. when i read that the first 6 times before i started growing (this particular plant, grown other stuff lots) i understood it but not really...that's because there's a range that your pH HAS TO BE IN in order for your plants to take in nutes. (also this range is different for hydro vs. soil, so there's that too.) so that means if your pH gets out of whack it can have a snowball effect on everything else going on with your plants, but in particular with nutrient deficiencies. it can often cause misdiagnoses of symptoms and then you have two problems (potentially) over or under nutrient supply PLUS incorrect pH. so pH is REALLY REALLY important.

another thing i wish i'd known about pH-ing water in general is that oxygenation causes pH to fluctuate, possibly a lot. again, hydro vs. soil matters here. BUT i grow in soil and if i shook my premixed water (which i would do at first,) well that would then cause an "inaccurate" (strictly speaking) pH reading, even though i was doing everything else correctly.

so those are just a couple of things i would say in initial response to your specific questions. i'm sure other people will chime in. this is a great, great site. good luck to you.

[PigSquishy]

You really bring up a couple of good points I've also learned in hydro about oxygenation of the water, the more oxygen you have in the water at the plant roots the faster they can seriously grow and uptake water and nutes, the nutes also stay stable longer, and the pH also seems to stay stable and the drift is much slower since I upgraded the aerating. My fertilizer company has a charts for 'Super Aerated Water 15-lpm' or something to that effect at one point and it blew me away... WHAT? But what really shocked me they called for less nutes at higher aerating of the water, so decided to make some changes and see what it would do for me... and like you said, I saw some changes in pH and things and never looked back.

[AlexPanth]

Thanks for the feedback guys, it's much appreciated!

So I guess pH levels and PPM do have to be monitored closely for best results. I was wondering, do you know if any products exist that would adjust pH & PPM levels automatically based on the readings? I think I saw something on a commercial scale (price was over a thousand bucks) so I was curious if anything existed on a smaller scale that would make the process more "idiot proof" so to speak. And if so, do you think those are useful at all?

I wouldn't mind paying an extra few bucks if I knew it would ensure I didn't have to worry about constantly checking on that stuff

[PigSquishy]

If you want a cheap, simple thing to read pH - PPM's - Water Temp then might I suggest you look up "24-7 Nutrient Monitor - Continuous Read" GrowersHouse has it priced for $155; it won't change anything but it will show you 24-7 what those things are reading, you do have to calibrate it I think every 2-3 months I think they say. As far as changing the pH goes, if your system is setup correctly here is how it should go...

Fill the water, some people mix the fresh batch and let it sit to warm to room temps. others use a heating element to heat the water to temp before adding it to the res so you don't shock the roots, and you don't want to use hot water from the tap because of the added minerals in a hot water heater, hence the buildup of scale and lime on a lot of hot water heaters. Next mix your fertilizers to the directions of what they tell you to, when they say it should be ~800 ppm, they mean that is what the total PPM's should be with their nutes mixed with water, if it is higher it is because of the water you are using. Watching the PPM's can tell you if the plant is using more water or nutes and allow you to adjust accordingly, for times like in the summer your plants might use more water than nutes because they are using the water in the same way you sweat to stay cool. In the cooler periods a plant will use less water, but want more nutes, so watching the PPM's can help you see what is going on for how strong the nutes in the water is. The only time I ever even care is if the PPM's take a sudden swing, then I know something is seriously wrong and to start looking for what and why. Water temps the happier the roots and plant canopy the faster the plant will grow, the less issues you will run into, and then the pH well you pretty much set it at 6.00 and leave it to swing between 5.5 - 6.5 without making any changes. The pH shouldn't be swinging that big within a weeks time where you'd need to adjust it again before the next water change unless your res is to small for that many plants.

Oh and when it comes to the importance of flushing... FLUSH!!! It is more than a topic of personal opinions, take the time to sit down and listen to why some people are really getting on board with the idea just pH'd water isn't enough, so you understand why it is such a hot topic. Growing cannabis can be as easy or as hard as you choose to make it based off from how much time, money and energy you invest into getting things set up correctly to work for you. But don't just concentrate on growing it thinking you're just going to grow this amazing plant, cut it down toss it in a corner to dry and have this amazing smoke because you bought a brand of nutes or some additive for it that made these amazing claims about what their product and what it will do for your buds. Drying and curing it properly is just as, if not more important than growing it, and if you properly store it in glass out of the light it will keep for years and years without losing anything. The best place I found information on drying and curing from all the books and all over the web is right here at GWE, it seriously is what brought me to the Forums here because of the information provided here all in one spot that covers everything and is spot on.

[BuddMarsh]

Hello AP. I know when I first decided to try a hydro grow it seems so complicated. I found this http://www.growweedeasy.com/high-yie...nics-technique on this site and followed it. Made things so much easier. I use RO water which is cheap ($1.00 for 5 gallons) and ph at 6.0 perfect for hydro. I used the nutes and the feeding schedule from the guide as a starting point and watched the plant to see if it needed more or less nutes.

I did set up and ran the system (tank, lights, fan etc.) for a few days before I placed the plants in so that I could see what type of heat/humidity problems I would run in to and corrected them before the plants went in. I am not able to keep the tank temp in the "perfect range" mine is always in the mid 70s but with using the Hydroguard as suggested I have never had any root problems.

[PigSquishy]

That is a good point here my RO Water is $0.87 a gallon, the pH is 8.80 and the PPM's of it is 80, so I have to use a big of pH Down to bring my RO water down to 6.00 pH. When my water hits the low 70's I start getting algae in the bottom of the res, and in the mid 70's temp range I have clogged up my filter with a brown algae, thus I either am forced to use a product to keep the issues of algae away at those temps or drop the water temps down to 60-F which allows more oxygen in the water and allowed the roots to grow at the faster rate. You will find there is going to be differences for each person and their setup, its all a matter of learning what you need to do to make it work the best for you.

[South Sierra Dude]

Yes I do agree. Not having a feeding plan that makes sense for your chosen medium and not Ph ing / improper ph are the biggest problems I see.

[South Sierra Dude]

I was wondering, do you know if any products exist that would adjust pH & PPM levels automatically based on the readings? I think I saw something on a commercial scale

Organic super soil feeds itself and ph buffers itself. Anthony Franciosi had a free download that tells you how to make it If you don't know.

[Jason]

I bought a GH Water Farm/clay balls, GH Trio for nutes, pH Down, CaMg+ , pH liquid tester for $7.00, one 6" carbon air filter/fanfan and (2) 300W full spectrum LED's on Amazon.
Feeding schedule and concentrations are in a chart on the GH website. To aerate the nutes I use a 4" air stone to over oxygenate which helps with keeping microbes in check and the
girls love it. .
All I did was pretty much follow directions with 3 clones. First harvest in a week or so.
I don't measure PPM and change nutes every 6 days, not seven to ten as they say.
Temp and humidity are naturally in a good range, so I don't have to deal with any of those issues.

The information on this website and forum has been most helpful.

I check pH at least three times a day. Early on it needed a lot of adjusting down (I did not neutralize the clay balls before setting up the Farm). Later, in early flower, I was adjusting up with plain tap water.
I use urban tap water and pH balance after mixing nutrients.
I have to add .25 gallons of H2O two to three times a day.

My set up is nothing special at all. Hobby level actually, which suits my needs.
I'm a lifetime gardener so this is great fun. Love the hydro over soil.

Good luck!

Edit: I also keep a written journal of everything I do. Date, time, what's added and how much. I look for patterns such as pH fluctuations and water consumption. .

[South Sierra Dude]

I bought a GH Water Farm/clay balls, GH Trio for nutes, pH Down, CaMg+ , pH liquid tester for $7.00, one 6" carbon air filter/fanfan and (2) 300W full spectrum LED's on Amazon.
Feeding schedule
All I did
I don't
I don't have to deal with any of those issues.

The information on this website and forum has been most helpful.

I check pH
I use urban tap water
I have to add

My set up is nothing special at all.

Good luck!

Jason has a plan. Be like Jason.

[PigSquishy]

I agree... if you have a working plan that works for you, then 99% of the problems and issues get solved right there. Back in the day I used those pH Drops myself for years and they worked great, but honestly if you go to a digital meter it is amazing. I spent $20 on my pH pen on Amazon and its just a rinse after use and calibrate once a month or two cheap one. More people should truly take note you have a working plan and its working for you.