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    Copper deficiency??

    I just don't know anymore.
    I'm using the Nature's Living Soil recommended on this site.
    The rest is filled with Fox Farm Happy Frog
    I'm using store bought Spring Water AND STILL testing the pH.
    All the water has been 6.5 +/- .1.
    I can't use pH Up or Down with this soil.
    I water the plants maybe once a week. Usually 8-10 days The day temp is 78 the night temp is 76.
    Humidity i keep around 60%

    The nutrient burn ... Okay that was expected. The FAQ on the site said so, GWE said so in the organic soil instructions. I got the nutrient burn because I keep underwatering the plants and then it's too nutrient rich in the soil and then I get nutrient burn..... I water slightly more frequently and then I get nutrient deficiencies. Like where the fuck is the perfect medium????

    But WHY are the leaves turning purple? How can soil pH be the issue???? The soil is marketed as being pH correcting or pH stable of you don't add some crazy basic or acidic soil.

    My friend threw a seat into a pot and just forgot about it and got some banging ass weed and I'm here struggling for two fucking years and I can't figure out what the fuck I'm doing wrong.

    I just want to have my own shit so I don't have to pay for it from dispensaries. Having cancer is expensive enough half the time I can't even afford my medication... Am I asking for too fucking much just to have a damn plant?

    It's just getting to me. It's really getting to me.

    I don't want people thinking that I don't know how to grow plants. I grow half of the food I eat every single year. My garden is full of all different kinds of vegetables and fruits. And I love growing cacti. That's my biggest one almost 6 ft tall.... But I have plenty of other cacti around the house...... WHY IS GROWING A POT PLANT SO IMPOSSIBLE????? I just don't get it. I'm literally losing sleep over it.
    What could I do differently? what am I doing wrong? Even my mother who's been growing food her whole life doesn't know what's wrong. I don't even have these issues growing grapes or roses.

    Before people start yelling at me and saying that I'm overwatering the plants here is how wet the soil is. It's the only thing this meter is good for is checking the moisture of the soil.


      Ok mate i think your over thinking and stressing i know how that feels your plants dont look bad add a bit of cal mag on your next grow change just to normal compost is it a purple strain also i been told that happy frog is a really strong soil dont believe them telling u its ph stable i change my ph anywere from 6 to 7 the plant will take up diffrent nutes at diffrent phs also put more plants down so if you do get problems hopefuly u still end up with enough weed to see you through hope this helps mate


      • No3odiesShad0w
        No3odiesShad0w commented
        Editing a comment
        It's not the happy frog that's pH stable. It's the Nature's Living Soil that's supposed to be pH stable as long as you water the plants with water between 6.2 and 6.8 which I've been doing. That's the one that's supposed to be doing the work because of all the microbes and fungus and whatnot

      • No3odiesShad0w
        No3odiesShad0w commented
        Editing a comment
        As far as the strain goes, I have no idea. In past grows, the buds were really nice and colorful. The other one growing is blue dream but the one that's getting purple leaves I have no idea what strain it is. I kept it because the genetics seemed pretty good it grows very well and has loads of flowers.

      Yo dude, I'm not sure on the specific deficiency I'm afraid, though from the look of the leaves in general & what you describe, i would be pretty sure it's the rootzone causing this issue.

      I won't hammer you about over/under-watering at all, as i think your watering amount is probably correct per se and it's more just a case of your schedule needs adjusting - my only observation would be that if you're watering enough that it takes 8 - 10 days to dry out then that's quite a large amount over a long time in what are only medium size pots, and thus lengthens out the wet/dry periods quite far too - personally I would just split what you're currently doing in half and give half of whatever the current amount is every 4 - 5 days. This would be a more regular schedule and the less excessive swings between wet & dry should be more preferable to the plants nute uptake.

      My only other comment was going to be that the leaves do look similar to what high humidity can look like, or like if they're respiring rather than transpiring, though your stated 60% should be fine during veg + it could just be they're typically sativa looking. - But on that note, the only other thing to ask was what is the airflow like in their space?? I can't fully tell from your pic, though I'm guessing they're in a greenhouse?; but if the plants aren't physically blowing about in some sort of breeze already then i would also recommend putting a fan in there too, as ensuing adequate gaseous exchange on all leaves can aid in solving feeding issues & increase overall vitality - alot of fruit & veg like tomato plants are happy to sit baking in a wind-less greenhouse all day long, but cannabis prefers a good wind blowing on it most of the day. Apologies in advance if I've assumed something totally incorrectly!
      Last edited by DaGreenBlazer; 01-23-2022, 05:35 PM.


      • No3odiesShad0w
        No3odiesShad0w commented
        Editing a comment
        I do have a fan in the room( spare room in the apt). I had it across the room blowing on the plants but started noticing some wind burn so i turn the fan so it blows against the wall and then against the plants. I noticed all the wind burn symptoms went away.

        I have been doing large quantities of water and then i leave it until the pot feels light or probe says it's getting dry then i water again. I used to do a little bit ever few days and it seemed like i was having issues with overwatering. I'll try doing less but more frequently and just check with the probe.

        Can't imagine it being a pH issue. I check the water going in and out. I check with the probe. It's always within take +/-1

      I even moved 2 plants elsewhere so that the area and light isn't crowded. Give these 2 as much space, light and air movement as possible. I'm mean damn i even put some herbs in there so they can show them how to grow. Some motivational support lolol. Idk. The herbs grow like weeds..... Too bad the weed can't.


        Some will purple from their genetics, so I wouldn't worry about the purple. I would also put that moisture meter in file 13, instead lift the pot after watering, feel how heavy it is and then lift it before the next water, it should be much lighter. I used one of those for a while, I was sticking it into a wet place in the soil, which lead me to think it did not need water when it really did. You can use black strap molasses to both reduce PH and Nitrogen.
        I would also put it up that in mixing 2 brands of soil together, it is no longer balanced.
        Also water, what is the water source? IF from a city/public service what are you doing for chlorine or chloramine?


        • No3odiesShad0w
          No3odiesShad0w commented
          Editing a comment
          I did exactly what the soil website said to do. I did exactly what GWE said to do for organic growing using living soil. They say to mix the two different soils but only on one third of the pot the rest is filled with regular potting soil. Because if you just use the regular living soil you're going to burn the shit out of anything that goes into that soil That's how hot it is. So it has to be mixed with something else.

          I do use the method of lifting up the flower pot to see how heavy it is and that gives me a good idea of the moisture inside. But I also like the double check and triple check because clearly I'm doing something wrong.

          As far as the water source goes I used to use the sink water and I ran it through a Brita filter and then I would correct the pH.. since I can't use pH up or down with this soil.... I've been buying spring water from the store I specifically make sure that it's not reverse osmosis or filtered water it has to be spring water.. I test the pH on it every single time and it's almost always 6.5.

        • Rwise
          Rwise commented
          Editing a comment
          I build my own living soil, it does not have to be that hot, I also PH it IF I think its needed, but I use pelleted sulfur and dolomite so the plants can do the main work of PHing.

        That's cool you've got airflow sorted fine already, and eliminates that as any sort of issue certainly - trying watering less but more frequently should hopefully help too, and seeing how far along flowering actually is then i would also recommend if possible to decrease the humidity down to nearer 40% (I don't know why i responded above as tho they were in veg still - sorry!)

        Though from seeing the latest pic, tbh they look pretty good in that - alot of the leaves look fine & generally both bushes have got consistent colour throughout their bodies, plus more importantly it looks like bud development is coming along fine - I can't see you mention above what week of flowering they are in, though i would guess it's round about week 4 or 5 from switch to 12/12, and even if it's week 6, then I'd say they're still looking ok - it's only if that's late week 8 or 9 since switch then I'd say they're abit underdeveloped.

        And that's the only other point I'd say, is again as long as bud development is coming on good and they're fluffing out loads of hairs, the buds keep swelling & trichome coverage keeps growing, then you're doing fine. Mid way through flowering the plant will divert all resources from leaves and into flowers anyway, so don't be too overtly worried about leaf deficiencies appearing in the sense that from now the plant herself will see leaves as disposable. From what i can see in the pics the bud growth looks good, so i can only say that's it's good you pay them lots of attention and to keep monitoring them as well as you have been - hopefully trying the watering idea should offer some improvement, although I'm stumped for any answer otherwise as tbf you seem very successful at horticulture with everything else.
        Last edited by DaGreenBlazer; 01-24-2022, 08:03 AM.


          DaGreenBlazer here's some pictures i just took. Mystery looks a bit limp because it was pretty dry in there. Trading your advice only added 2 cups of water exactly no more. I'll check back in 2 or 3 days to see how the soil is .... Maybe they did need more constancy with the watering.
          As far as humidity goes. I can drop it to whatever i want. I usually lower the humidity a bit later in the bud growth to get them sticky. I mean i can try at 55 or even 50%

          I switched Christmas day but i didn't start getting flower flowers until about January 10ish so about 4 weeks in i would say maybe less


          • DaGreenBlazer
            DaGreenBlazer commented
            Editing a comment
            That's cool thanks and hopefully trying the watering will make a difference - thanks for confirming their age too and i would say they're on track fine certainly for what they should look like bud wise at this stage - possibly what you're seeing in the limpness & leaves issue, etc is just environmental related & is more just a stress response rather than a physical deficiency, and will be interesting if they seem to perk up now you've tried moving them to different places as well.

            Otherwise as i say, apart from the 1 limp Mystery, the rest all look pretty healthy & productive to me and considering they've only got to make it through another approx 6 weeks to harvest, I'd say they'll make it fine based on current observation - certainly, if they start deteriorating more then it's a different story, though i think for the healthy ones a few leaf peculiarities aren't the end of the world if it's flowering well still. As for the limp one, that is the only one looking like it'd require closer monitoring atm & it's only really after a few days you'll know which direction it's headed - hopefully it's able to recover, though possibly it's just a weaker or more delicate specimen anyway.

            I'll wish you luck in seeing some positive responses!

          Oh the blue dream is 2 weeks behind i believe that's why the buds are small.


            Then I have the next generation being trained. I just replanted them inside that super soil yesterday. Now just the train train train until my current girls are ready for the chop and these go underneath the bloom light.


              No3odiesShad0w Number 1 thing you are doing wrong is starting with trash soils. Number 2 you are Not watering correctly. For anyone to make money on a 20 dollar bag of soil it has to be mostly trash, reason why then they recommend you buy the magical potions in bottles. Living soils are not to dry out if they do you are killing off the biology in the soil that is supposed to be breaking down organic matter to feed the plants, correcting PH, etc. always I mean always make sure the top of the soil is moist not wet, if you let the top 2” dry or even top 1” you are loosing soldiers.


                Read this to start.
                What's So Cool About Super Soil? The Super Soil Recipe Breakdown.

                August 31, 2020

                If you have been reading about cultivating indoors with organic soil then you've heard of SubCool's Super Soil. I admit to starting with this mix and thought I was really doing something special when I first went for it. I bought all the stuff and was really excited to use it.

                My results were actually pretty good, but I've since moved on I think you should too. Make your own soil for better results. This is why I've stopped using other super soils like Subcool's.

                Besides the "base soil" being purchased instead of made from scratch, I have many other issues. All in all, taking bagged soil and adding worm castings and nutrients isn't a bad idea, but the mix can be improved upon and money can be saved.

                Here is the Recipe the other guys use:
                • 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
                • 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
                • 5 lbs steamed bone meal
                • 5 lbs Bloom bat guano 5 lbs blood meal
                • 3 lbs rock phosphate
                • ¾ cup Epson salts
                • ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
                • ½ cup azomite (trace elements)
                • 2 tbsp powdered humic acid

                Now I'll go through each item:
                1. Bagged soil - WHY? when we are going to the trouble to mix all of this up anyways, me might as well save some money and increase the quality. The other factor here is having exact control over the inputs. These soils already have unknown quantities of nutrients and the quality control isn't perfect, what if you get a hot batch and then further amend it? I would avoid the potential room for problems and make a soil using many standard recipes but most go with 1 part peat, 1 part compost and 1 part aeration.
                2. Mycorrhizae: Adding this to your soil doesn't make sense and is a waste of resources. Anyone who works with mycorrhizae will tell you to apply to the rootzone at transplant or seedling stage. Obviously this super soil mix is for the bottom of the container and nowhere near the rootzone at the proper time. Basically just a complete waste of Myco.
                3. 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings: I agree with using wormcastings but that is a WIDE range to apply. Why 25 - 50? I think that when building your base mix you should be factoring in a certain percentage of castings and compost. Not adding to this all later on in a made up way.
                4. 5 lbs steamed bone meal - This is a by-product from the Cattle industry and is really not a good input for organic soil production. Fish bone meal however is great for this same purpose and is safer to use.
                5. 5 lbs Bloom bat guano - Guano is very expensive and really not necessary. This is a fast release nutrient and is more in line with the feed the plant regimen instead of soil building. That and harvesting guano is rarely safe and sustainable, there are many reasons to avoid this.... Plus the Fish bone meal that we just mentioned has you covered already along with all the other plant based amendments and worm castings that you should be using.
                6. 5 lbs blood meal - More slaughterhouse waste and sure to be unclean. Why use the blood from McDonalds cows when you can add nitrogen so easily through alfalfa meal, fish meal and or worm castings. Show your soil some better love.
                7. 3 lbs rock phosphate - This is the 3rd phosphate product and it makes sense because in a soil this rich and without the mycorrhizae actually working like it should there isn't going to be a very good way to access P. That's okay, in a properly built soil you don't need a million sources of P, the plants will get it and the biology and fungi will make sure of it. Not only that but soft rock phosphate is high in heavy metals like cadmium that are proven to be harmful. When growing cannabis, the trichomes will store the heavy metals and smoking the plant will not allow the typical body safety system of passing through the liver etc. before going into your blood. For this reason materials high in heavy metals are typically avoided.
                8. ¾ cup Epsom salts - Absolutely no reason to add more magnesium sulfate to a good soil mix. A little known fact about soil is that the Calcium to Magmesium Ratio will control the texture of the soil and adding epsom salts is a good way to tighten the soil and there are better ways to get sulfur, like gypsum.
                9. ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite) - Dolomite lime should be avoided as it is completely out of balance with the proper Calcium to magnesium ratios for proper soil building. Especially when considering long term no-till soil use.
                10. ½ cup azomite (trace elements) - This is good stuff and is just a "brand" name rock dust that has all the elements from A-Z hence Azomite.... thing is, that also includes heavy metals. While I'd use this in the veggie garden, many will avoid this in the medicine garden.
                11. 2 tbsp powdered humic acid - Good advice but humic acid typically purchased at the grow shop is from leanordite and isn't really helpful and is very expensive. Avoid this and get Ful-Power from Bio-ag and use it with waterings.

                So then after all this work. You mix this up and let it sit for 30 days. Then use this in the BOTTOM of your soil container. What is interesting is that all though this makes sense at first glance... it's all way off. Nature doesn't have all the nutrients on the bottom in fact it's the opposite, all the plants in nature have the nutrients on the top. That is why building a soil (making your own soil), using mulch and topdressing work so well. It's things like this that make the real organic Gardner's and farmers laugh at all of us sometimes.

                So if you've been using super soil, don't feel bad, I think we all did at some point and I owe Subcool a lot because he actually got this semi-organic mix discussed enough that the mainstream took notice... that alone was helpful at getting me to where I am today.

                I hope this article helps!


                  Also read this
                  How To Water Living Soil - Over Water Vs. Under Water

                  August 03, 2020

                  How do I water Living Soil?

                  This is the 20% that causes 80% of the issues. Learn to water and success is much closer.

                  Here is the fast rule of thumb to consider.

                  5-10% of the soil volume for potting soils.

                  Small Containers with bigger plants need daily water. here's how to measure the amount of water per gallon of soil.
                  How to water living soil

                  Big Containers with Smaller plants need water once a week or so. The idea is to maintain optimal moisture. When I have multiple plants in one large container and cover crop going I can water every day to every other day in small amounts. But the same grower at home with less plants per bed might be able to go a week. Use these guidelines to come up with your own routine.

                  So how much water is 5% or 10%?

                  Use your soil volume to multiply by 5% or 10%

                  For example: 30 Gallons of soil = (30 gallons of soil x 5% = 1.5 gallons of water)

                  The next thing to remember is that it’s all relative to VPD, plant size vs. container size, and speed of growth.

                  VPD = Vapor Pressure Deficit and is the key to balancing proper temperatures with consideration to the humidity. Blog Post on VPD:

                  For instance. You have 10 gallon soil containers. You’ll probably water half of a gallon per watering and you could even use a little less if you do this daily or the plant is not large yet. But if you live somewhere where it is humid and your grow room is not warm, your plants will not be growing under ideal circumstances which means they just won’t be able to drink as much water as needed. That being said you would then need to factor that into your watering equation.

                  Now on the other hand if you have a larger plant and it’s dry and warm you’ll probably be watering closer to 1 full gallon of water per each watering and still maybe everyday.

                  Think of soil moisture on a scale of 1-10. 1 being bone dry and 10 being muddy wet. We want to operate in the 3-7 range all day long, day in and day out. You can do this by calibrating automatic watering systems or by hand watering with a little intelligent thought.

                  Watering the soil to make sure the plants are happy is the number one challenge most new no-till growers will face. Without a carnal understanding of what the plants and soil require, the newer grower will spent countless hours chasing their tail. If you know your soil has plenty of nutrients but it just isn’t growing properly it all comes back to watering habits.

                  Not only will the plant miss out on key nutrients because of this but it’s decline in overall health will literally send the signal to natures clean up crew to come and get rid of your plants. Now, of course it’s not all that simple, but for the most part the bugs and pests we have come to dislike actually do serve a purpose. The problem is that people are unknowingly causing their own pest and disease issues because of over and or under-watering their soil and plants.

                  Think of the plant as an intelligent being that has no control over it’s environment and only control over how it reacts. Our goal is to give the plants the environment that will lead to the most efficient use of water and the fastest growth. To get good use of water we need warmer temps and balanced humidity with good grow lights and good soil.

                  So let’s make sure you have a mental process to walk through and maybe you can see your own answer…

                  Temps? High and Low? Low temps can cause overwatering, high temps can cause underwatering…

                  Humidity? High and Low? Low humidity will cause plant growth issues but also will require more waterings. High humidity is ideal in veg and can speed up growth but is easier to over water.

                  Rootzone Temperature? Cold temps will drastically slow growth and slow the water use.

                  Canopy Temperature? High Canopy temps can drive moisture movement by drying the plant out so it has to constantly move moisture to the top of the plant and this can drive plant growth to a certain point. Low Canopy temps can be good for flowering but not as good for veg so just consider your canopy temperature when dialing your VPD. Consider using a laser to test the top leaves near the grow light. Low Canopy temps can lead to over-watering easier.

                  When do you water normally? Do you have a routine? Best practices are to water when the lights turn on or in the morning and at a consistent time. If you are have no routine and water whenever you feel like it you will have a garden with weak plants and pests and disease. Just sticking to a routine can eliminate many issues. It only becomes a problem when the routine leads to over-watering instead of paying attention to the plants and soils needs.

                  Do you water too fast? We recommend using a pump sprayer for smaller gardens so you can water slow and even like rain and not fast and rushed like a tsunami.

                  When was the last time you watered and how much? Was if more than 5-10% by volume? Was is very recent? You probably aren’t under-watered but if the watering before that was a long time out and things got dry in between your soil could have gone hydrophobic and have dry spots. That is why consistency is so helpful.

                  How often are you watering? We prefer to see less water and more often. The best drip systems are watering several times per day in small amounts. Most growers that we know that hand water usually water everyday or every other day depending on container size, plant size etc.

                  What size grow container? Large container with small plant error on the side of less water. Large plant and small container error on the side of too much water.

                  How many plants per container? Consider how much soil is really there per plant. If you have 3 plants in a 15 gallon container your watering needs to be more often than if you only had 1 plant.

                  What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Seeds need enough water to germinate and then after that make sure they have a little less water as they are easy to over water while young. Then as the plants mature in a small container they will need much more water. The next big phase of water use is when you go into flower for the first 2 weeks during this time the plants will double in size. It’s important to note mentally when this growth phase slows down so you adjust your watering accordingly.

                  How big are the plants? Again, if you have a larger plant and a smaller container you will be watering much more often sometimes twice per day to keep her happy.

                  How big are the plants relative to container size? AGAIN! If you have small plant and big container it’s easy to over-water, if you have large plant and small container it’s easy to underwater.

                  How Heavy Is Your Container? You should lift or tilt your grow container to get an idea of how heavy before and after you water. You can then reference that feeling later when you aren’t sure if over or under-watered.

                  Thump the side with your hand, does it sound hollow? Or Dense and wet? If it is light and sounds hollow it’s under-watered. If it sounds dense and wet you are probably not under-watered.

                  What is the age of your plants? Have they grown root-bound and are just too old? Maybe there are multiple issues at play? Consider the age and health of plants along with the size and you’ll be thinking smart.

                  How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? Could it be the new soil? Or maybe they have been in it too long and depleted nutrients? Maybe it’s not your watering! Be sure to consider a living soil if it's time to make a change. Build A Soil, your own soil, for the best results.

                  Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? Sometimes changing recipes can cause some strange issues until the plants get used to the new soil.

                  What substrate/medium are you using? Do you have enough aeration? Or way too much? Sometimes considering what your soil recipe is will clue you into the understanding of over or under-watered.

                  What type of grow light? Do you have enough power? Too much? Plants like a certain amount of light in veg and flower and many new growers will take short cuts and get a cheaper grow light that will slow plant growth and cause over-watering. On the other hand if you have a powerful new grow light maybe it’s too much in the beginning? Make sure the plants are happy and the environment is good and you’ll be way ahead of the issues because there will be a wider margin for error.

                  What is the distance to the canopy? Grow lights need to be at the proper distance to work. Make sure you take this into consideration.

                  What is your relative humidity? To low and you’ll underwater while slowing growth of the plants. Too high of humidity and you’ll over-water more than likely.

                  What is the canopy temperature? Laser the leaf and find out! Adjust your watering of the plant and soil accordingly.

                  What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) Big swings in temps can cause issues. Low temps can cause over-watering and high temps under-watering. Factor this into you routine.

                  Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? If your have no air circulation or venting you can have more issues like C02 and or weak plants. Ideally we want to mimic nature and have plenty of fresh air (Exhaust and Intake) and plenty of air circulation (Oscillating fans)

                  Is the fan blowing directly at plants? You’ll notice if the plant blows directly at one plant it will look weak and have issues compared to the others. You want to have a balanced environment.

                  Finally, are plant's infected with pest's? (Are you sure?) Did you scope to make sure?


                    I run 8, 5 gallon pots. I water every 3 days, 2 gallons. Divide that by 8 it’s a quarter of a gallon per pot. Could be more or less but that is what works for me. I do more frequent if I notice the top drying out and less water. Sometimes I think it’s still wet enough on the third day so I wait till the fourth day but make sure I do the 2 gallons. This way of growing allows you to observe the plant and you will learn and see right away how happy or unhappy they are after you water and you will learn when they need more or less more frequent or less frequently. Get the mix right and the watering, once you do that you will see the real way to Grow Weed Easy.


                    • 3Berries
                      3Berries commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Do you get any pH issues near the end without any runoff watering?

                    • golfnrl
                      golfnrl commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I caught what ya did there

                    3Berriesno issues at all. Check out my current grow. I’m trying to update weekly. Also growing in city pickers which will eliminate any watering guess work.


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