First time making Oil I have a couple of Questions

[Poppa]

Questions first they concern plant mater and the last 2nd to last picture. This question maybe premature the oil I collected in 7th pic seems loose or liquidy. How do you judge when to stop the extraction or is just some thing learned by repeating process over and over. It is in fridge at moment. Second question I did two 20 minute washes and then buchner filtration of the plant mater once the residual alcohol evaporates can it be used for any thing? On to pictures 1st is of is of 1/2 of the 1st wash after going through the buchner funnel using the 3 filters in picture 2. Pic 3 are from left to right pint jar with what I was able to filter from the plant mater after the washes. Fourth was taken as first 1/2 of the first wash started. Fifth pic is what was left in bottle after the 2 washes, sixth is what level was after 1st wash was extracted and added back, seventh is what was collected from the first wash extraction. And lastly what I couldn't quite suck up with the syringe and ended up wasting I let it set to long before trying to get it out with a spatula had to clean it out with alcohol and dawn so crucible is ready to do second was tomorrow.

[Puglover1]

I don't have your equipment (wish I did). I do quick washes, few minutes. I put the syringe in the freezer to winterize, it won't be as loose. Your crucible? Could you have set some hot water under it to loosen it back up, or add a bit of warm EverClear? I hate to see that nice old get wasted. You can incorporate the oil into many things - gummies, butter, cooking oils, etc - as needed. Looks like 6 ml, how much weed did you use? Just curious. I think others who use a Source have an good idea when to stop it, I'm sure they'll weigh in. That thrice filtered beaker solution looks really nice.

[Poppa]

There is 3 ml in the syringe if I get comparable amount from second wash I'll end up with 6ml. I used 30.5 grams of larfy buds from one of my spring harvests. That being said I should mention when I was breaking it up to get good working consistency in my trim bin I harvested 2 grams of kief that was added to my jar of kief not the oil I'm sure that affected amount I will get once done with this run. I thought of just pouring some of the second wash into the crucible this morning. Then anytime I passed through the kitchen this morning while doing my normal routine giving it a little stir to dissolve it into the second extraction. But watching or reading some of the extract craft info it said adding new to old in crucible could cause splattering or popping creating a mess in the extractor. Each wash is more than the crucible can hold so i am doing 1/2 of it then pouring into jar jar with second run of same wash mixing it up good and do the second run it seemed to go smoothly.

[Ckbrew]

Nice job Poppa . When to stop the extraction. Are you trying to avoid all ethanol in the oil? Then it needs further concentration. If ethanol being present is not a problem then It is up to you. As the ethanol leaves, the oil will become thicker and harder to manipulate. A little bit of ethanol goes a long way to making it easier to use. If you need ethanol free, put your concentrate in a stainless steel measuring cup. Measure and record the tare weight first. Then I use a candle warmer to gently warm the oil. You will be able to smell the ethanol coming off. Continue until vapors are no longer being gassed off. The oil will be very stiff now think cold molasses. Silicone containers and tools help manipulate that.

If you did your extract correctly, there is little left worth fussing over in the leftover plant material. Let it dry and do a smoke test. It may be harsh, but see if it still gives a buzz. I usually do 3 washes of 5 minutes each as cold as the freezer will get it, about 20*F. Make sure there is no ethanol in it before you try and light it up lol.

Did you freeze your ethanol, bud, wash vessel, before extraction? Goal is to keep everything as cold as possible until it is separated from the plant. Did you decarb before extraction? Not sure how you intend to use this.

Why are there 3 filter papers? 3 different filter runs? Don't understand. You should be able to use the one paper in the buchner for all wash filtering during a lab session. I use a stainless kitchen drain strainer to pre strain the ethanol wash before sending to the buchner. Are you pre-wetting the filter paper with solvent before you start the filtration process? Doing this lets the paper relax and stick to the buchner plate.

The crucible is part of your extractor machine I take it. Don't waste that. Wash out with warm ethanol. It will not take much. Save this, put in freezer, then add to your next batch. Just toss it in the buchner and have it part of next batch. If you are particular about mixing strains of extract, then wash as described and start a saved wash jar of ethanol and what ever you washed out. Save it up and when you get enough concentrate it down. Call it mixed bag oil.

It looks like you have not completed your concentrations for all your washes. It will be interesting to see what your ethanol consumption is for the 30.5gm you started with. I'm talking process consumption, not licking the bowl. My process consumes about 150ml. processing a 30gm batch with a 60ml final volume for tincture.

The small jar in picture 3 is what? Did you press the plant material to get that out? If it is the "third wash" there might be something in it worth saving. Are you combining your washes or product of washes or keeping them separate?

I'm not familiar with the machine you are using. What is it? The spattering or popping you refer to is probably what is called bumping. That is when your solvent gets to a temperature higher than the boiling point but does not vaporize. This condition builds up energy until something has to give, then you get a sudden vaporization of solvent that pushes any liquid solvent out of it's way, hence the term bumping. It can cause mayhem in a system like I have. There are procedures to take to prevent bumping in systems like introducing nucleation sites with boiling chips or agitation. This can happen with most volatile organic solvents if precautions are not taken. Don't know if they are able to be applied in your evaporator, not familiar with the machine. I suspect solvent from a new wash might get under or mixed with the thicker oil in the crucible and cause this to happen. If the wash is used to completely dissolve any prior residue in the crucible you should be able to avoid this just like you did when you cleaned it. Clean it with then new wash. Use your own judgement.

Did I help you or confuse you? Feel free to ask more questions.

[Poppa]

Thanks Ckbrew Have the silicon tools need to to get some silicon containers still. As for thickness of oil I did the second wash combined with the liquid from the pint jar that I was able to extract from the plant mater after the washes with the buchner funnel. My freezer on fridge is about -10f I put both the plant material and ever clear in freezer over night and yes I did decarb. I understand the 3 grades of filters and am prewetting them with alcohol to set them before filtering. I just took some liquor and silicon tool to clear what I could remove from the crucible and will add it to my next washes before filtering. As for how much alcohol it took for these 2 washes of the 30 grams I'm doing a post of today after I answer you it will have picture of how much I did not put back in bottle. I will be combining these washes with the washes from 6 more jars. So I'll end up with a quantity to work with that once dosing is determined I can figure out what I want to make with it and know how much of it needs to be consumed for my uses.

[Poppa]

Extracted the second wash today in the first pic you can see level of liquor from what was returned form extraction of 1st wash 2nd pic shows was level is after second wash with a sealed bottles level to show what was consumed by the process, a small spillage and of course me licking the outsides of the jars. Third pic shows the close to 2ml I was able to collect from second washes extraction. It was much thicker so I now have a better concept of what to look for to get consistency I'm looking for. I've decided to put oil I collect from doing the 2 washes and extractions of the 7 jars together in the pint jar in 3rd pic to work with once its all processed. In 4th pic are to jars I broke up today while doing the extraction and and then did the decarb this evening its in freezer for doing washes and extractions tomorrow. Last pic is just 44 more jars I still need to break up.

[Poppa]

Sorry should be 4 more jars to process. Puglover1 Ckbrew

[Poppa]

I payed 203 for the case of Ever Clear and 40 in gas that works out to just over 40 per bottle. Puglover1 I'd say a rough estimate by using the extractor to reclaim the alcohol I may have spent 5 or I could say I saved 35 on what was used to do 1st 2 washes. In the long run I foresee the Source will pay for it's self in just a couple of years or less if I get more efficient at transferring between containers.

[Puglover1]

Poppa - I haven't made oil for almost 6 months. I was using nature's subzero temps in February to do fast, beautiful washes. I have a photographic kind of memory, I was trying to picture myself making oil (using the double boiler method to reduce). I remember putting filtered solutions into a Pyrex measuring cup, I didn't really have much drippage to be licking. Darn it. But I still mopped up anything with a gummy or bread. If I had the inventory you do I can see the Source paying for itself, maybe someday for me. My EverClear was ~ $35/bottle, no gas costs to add so about the same. Phew, glad it was 4 not 44, lol.

[Poppa]

Was able to get about 7ml today. We have 6 or 7 more days of hot humid weather and my happy ass is going to stay inside making oil for 5 or 6 of them.

[Ckbrew]

Well then, after 5-6 days you should be well oiled.

[Poppa]

Started doing today's extraction as soon as I had a cup of coffee in hand around 8:20 was done had it collected and everything cleaned up by 5:30. I also finished breaking up last of the 4 jars I still need to decarb wash and filter. I'll decarb them this evening after the kids and grandkids leave. Then I can do the washes of those 4 tomorrow leaving me just the extractions to do the first 3 or 4 days of the week. With out trying I managed to add another 5 grams of kief to my stash from those 4 jars and collected a little over 6ml of oil. I screwed up and poured the alcohol from cleaning up residual oil in the crucible into the Ever Clear bottle not pint jar I had been using so its now Golden Clear. Thought I'd add a pic of what I've collected so far.

[Puglover1]

Ckbrew What I've often wondered about is this: you decarb to make canna-butter or coco oil then add it to brownie batter and bake for ~ 30 minutes at 350F. Does that do any further decarbing? (I did jar decarb then wash in same jar last time, my best batch of oil) I'm starting to think it's better to not decarb first. I don't mind decarbing in tiny Pyrex jars, watching the bubbles, I add wax thinner as needed. Not decarbed it's still vape or dab-able, pretty much all options for use are covered?

[Ckbrew]

Puglover1 Decarb is a natural process that is always happening even at room temperature, just slowly. Adding heat increases the rate of decarb. Once all is decarbed, nothing left for the decarb reaction. The thing to remember is that heat also destroys THC in excessive amounts. Therefore What we have is a balance act. The classic 250*F for 30-45 minutes is an extrapolation from studies that were done based on a large scale commercial operation to generate profit. Taking into account factors such as cost of energy and the source. Taking this information an scaling it down to 30gm batches makes some assumptions. That is where the art of the process starts to merge with the science of the process. Will baking in brownies further decarb? Only if decarb was not complete when you started. Think of it as water in a glass. You can pour it out. Did you do a good job? Turn the glass over and see if more water comes out. If yes, then decarb was not complete. If no, then decarb was complete and turning the glass over will not get you any more water.

[Puglover1]

Thanks for the explanation Ckbrew.

[Poppa]

Got the washes done yesterday so back to extractions today and was able to collect another 5ml. With 3 more jars left to extract I should end up with around 35ml when all's said and done.

[Poppa]

Decided to wait till I was done making oil and just make 1 post covering last 4 days. First pic is just over 9ml I collected on Tuesday. Second and third pics are from Wednesday. I had let the oil get a little to thick and pulled the plunger from syringe apart, managed to get the oil back out for the most part but with a new syringe was only able to get about 2 ml. Had one hell of a mess in the crucible which while redissolving it I had an epiphany. There was no need to suck the oil into a syringe since it was not what the oil will be stored in and would be more efficient to just use a silicon tool to assist it into the jar I'm using for storage. The fourth pic was taken last night to show amount of oil collected thru Wednesday and jar containing solution from cleaning the crucible over last 6 or 7 days. The fifth and sixth pics are from today. I have been using the golden clear to clean the crucible after collection and in the 4th pic the fuller jar is the solution from doing the cleaning. The 6th pic is of the Ever Clear from doing the extraction of the cleaning solution came out clear so may be able to clear the golden hue from the bottle the next time I make oil. The 5th pic is a jar with cleaning solution from cleaning the crucible today debating if I should store it in that jar or just add back into bottle with golden solution for storage till next time I make oil. Fifth pic also shows jar with the oil I collected right about 30 ml or 1/8 cup it also shows the bottle of golden clear slightly under 1/2 full. At one point I had the majority of 3 bottles of Ever Clear emptied while doing the 2 washes of last 4 jars so being able to reclaim the 2 1/2 bottles alcohol with the Source has already saved me 100+ dollars considering I'd already done 2 washes and extractions of 3 jars prior to doing the last 4. What I've learned if doing extractions over and over and have large container for storage just pour oil into it. Only use syringes if storing oil in them or when heating oil to make it viscous for collecting and measuring when making what ever it is you plan to add it to. The Source comes with one 6"x2" cake pan to use as an ice tray it will only last thru one 2 hour extraction run and it took 8+ hours most days reducing around 800 ml of tincture to an oil so I bought 3 more for future use. I had a second pan of similar diameter taller sides between those 2 pans and 3 old margarine tubs I used to make ice in I was able to keep ice on lid helping with the condensation of the alcohol this time. I have the thought of heating up some chocolate and adding 1 ml of oil to it let it cool and divide into 10 equal portions as a start to finding out the number of doses in 1 ml of my oil. Any suggestions on what would be the best material to place the chocolate/oil mix onto to let it cool and evaporate off any residual alcohol I have rolls parchment, wax paper, plastic wrap and aluminum foil on hand or is there a better suggestion to be had.

[Puglover1]

I'd use parchment, easier to remove when set. Those plastic syringes are meant for single use, I had the plungers mess up so I bought glass. Here's what I bought, I'm sure they come in different sizes: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303227607251

[grouchyoldman]

Hi Poppa, Whew, what a learning curve you've been riding! Thanks for sharing what you've learned.

I don't personally concentrate tincture all the way down to oil (too messy to work with IMHO!), but I have read that concentrated oil contains between 600 - 700 milligrams per milliliter of THC. I've also learned that a typical "dose" of oil from a syringe is about the size of a grain of rice.

If the "Standard" concentration for THC in edibles is 10 mg / ml, then one milliliter of your oil should be enough to dose up 60 cookies, brownies or chocolate squares.

You have successfully created the Neutron Bomb of Cannabis consumption! With Great Power comes Great Responsibility so be careful with your highly potent end product!

[Puglover1]

If Poppa used 1 ml (600 mg) and only ate one or two pieces of the chocolate we should hear from him soon.

[Poppa]

Okay @Puglover1 I can take a hint first let me say I have not smoked to medicate in 2 days. Looking online I found 1 ml. = 1000 mg. From pass experience with dispensary edibles I have been able to eat a 100 mg. package of their product and be able to feel the affects and been able to still function. With the exception of one time it hit me while mixing nutrients and took everything I had to be able to finish that gallon then get my ass set down till it leveled off about 30 to 40 minutes later where I could function again. I took 10 picks of a Hershey's bar and 1 ml. of my oil warmed chocolate and mixed in the oil, I used foil to pour it on to since I could fold up sides helping to contain chocolate till it solidified. Once cooled it weighted 76.6 grams so about 6:30 pm Fri. I ate 7.6 grams. Can't say how long it took to kick in but later my face & hands (both had tingly feeling like their asleep) and body were numb when I realized I was staring at the TV and had no idea what I'd been watching but found if I concentrated I could still function. Yesterday about 1:30 pm I elected to up the dose by 50% or 11.4 grams to see how it affected me. I didn't get anything done for hours not a good dose if I have something to work on. I can say it will do what I medically need it to do I slept like a baby the last 2 nights. But woke up with a cloudy mind last 2 mornings yesterday was clear headed and able to work about time I finished my coffee, still drinking it today and hope my heads clear soon I have shit I need to do for my grow today.

[Ckbrew]

Looking online I found 1 ml. = 1000 mg.

Poppa Sounds like you need to titrate your dose for your use. Where did you get 1000mg/ml as a reference? With out quantitative analysis on your product or knowing how the referenced oil was made, that is a big leap to assume that is what your concentration is . Being able to say the concentration of this oil is 1000mg/ml requires a QA lab report. It may put you in a ball park area but you will have to figure by experimentation what your dose is for your use. For example how much residual ethanol is in the oil will affect this number. Not saying that what you made isn't potent af, I'm sure it is. I have struggled with this problem for many years for dosing products that I have made for my patients. The training from my past years says lab procedures and dosing need to be accurate. Problem is, when you lack access to certain information compromises have to be made. The reality is that if you do not have a QA on your product and/or the raw material, dosing is going to be an estimation. I have found that if you keep records of a batch and have the same raw material to work with, it is easy to reproduce results for a product that has been already dose titrated. Lab reports are expensive and hard to get (at least here) if you are not a licensed producer. One way to get an estimate is to completely purge the ethanol from the oil, then weigh your product. Use the evaporation an pre- tare weight stainless measuring cup an if you are really want to be accurate about it purge in a vacuum chamber. Then when done, you then may want to thin down your oil by adding ethanol to make it easier to handle. You would keep track of what you are adding to calculate final volume. This can be a lot of work just to satisfy a need to be accurate.

One formula I came up with is: (mg bud) x (estimated THC in bud) x (process yield rate) = mg THC extracted

for example: 30 gm of bud, assuming 15% THC from the seed supplier (a leap of faith), 95% yield (an estimation), you have

(30,000mg) x .15 x .95 = 4,275mg or 4.28gm. (estimated) from an 30 gm extraction.

There are many assumptions in the above calculations and 4.28gm number does not include any residual ethanol. So you can see that with out the QA report it is difficult for the home extractor to say "I have x mg. dose here". Keep records so you can reproduce what you made and you can probably skip the titration next time the same batch is made. I usually start low dose and work up to desired effect.

[Poppa]

Where did you get 1000mg/ml as a reference? Ckbrew I'll try to walk you through my thought process. Since I will never make oil that will be lab tested I will only ever make oil for personal medication which once I'm on oxygen 24/7 instead of my current 8/24 medibles will be only way I'll be able to use cannabis and will need to do this a couple of times a year. I needed to have a base line to work from. I know I will be measuring the in 1 ml. increments so I typed in ml = in search bar which gave me a number of options and I chose ml. = mg. which gave me a number of websites to chose from looked at 3 or 4 all came up with 1 ml. = 1000 mg. Knowing that the few dispensary packages of medibles I've tried and ate the whole package of said they contained 100 mg. I elected to start at 1/10 ml. of my oil should be a safe base line for a dose. And 1/10 of the 76.6 grams chocolate weighed after blending in the oil was 7.66 grams and that is where I started testing to find what 1 dose is for this batch. The 7.6 gram dose worked good for arthritis and helped with sleep. Did not do much as for a head buzz and is why I did the increase of 50% yesterday to find a recreational dose and ended up to high to be productive I'll try 9.5 grams today to see if head high will allow me to function while recreationally medicated. I know each time I do these runs of oil I'll need to start from scratch to find the dose that will work for me. But for now I'll continue to start with a 1/10 ml dose when testing what was collect after the finial extraction from a oil run then adjust up or down to find my medical and recreational doses. I don't like waking up with my mind being cloudy so I will also need to find the best time of evening to medicate and wake up clear headed and ready to be productive.

[Puglover1]

Poppa You were getting .1 ml per dose but our homemade 1/10 ml strength isn't the same as the dispensary's. Their 'parcels' are truly 100 mg of THC, it takes me that much, at least. You lose some % bc it's rare to purge 100% of the alcohol, and our material probably isn't as strong as theirs. They must really concentrate it or use more oil to test out at 100 mg. When I was making oil - it's so hot here my frozen fruit bars aren't very hard in the freezer - I would put about 1/10 ml on top of a few store bought gummies and let it soak in a while before eating them. A friend made gummies here last year using dispensary syringes of two different strains, she left me some, they worked fine. It takes a while for medibles to kick in for me, by the time I think to eat any it's too late most nights. I like the better sleep part which tends to help pain, after a while. My best ever homemade medibles were from firecrackers. You can make them up in advance, they last a while in their foil pouches. A gram or so of decarbed weed made for a nice nighttime dose. I wish I could do daytime medibles but I don't feel comfortable if I have to drive somewhere, they can wax and wane for me. I wonder if taking smaller doses regularly throughout the day would accumulate a bit, and still give the sleep benefits. Let me know if you try that, please.

[Poppa]

@Puglover1 I made last post after stopping for a late lunch then started a test of 9.5 grams about 2:30. About an hour and a half later while taking a break I realized I was high and when I went back to work I didn't notice or think about it just knew my joints weren't aching. Now at 6:30 just watching the news waiting on dinner and I'm still high but didn't really notice it while working downstairs or while pealing potatoes for dinner. I don't care for driving if I'm high why most days I haven't hit my hash till I knew I was in for the night. It may be years before I start doing tests at low dosing through the day. The projects I work on most days would cost more from mistakes I'd make if high.

[Puglover1]

The next time the AC isn't running until dark I think I'll make up some firecrackers using 1 gram of already decarbed weed. Graham crackers are scored, I'll try eating 1/4 cracker at a time, set my phone alarm. I know what days I need to go somewhere, I'm cool driving high locally, not so much if I'm going 80 on I-80. Age?

[grouchyoldman]

Hi Poppa, congrats, you've created a very potent concentrate and proved that it can knock you on your ass!

It sounds like you are planning to make and use your concentrate routinely and you want each batch to be as consistent as possible.

I haven't seen any evidence that commercial concentrate is any "stronger" than our QWET extractions. THC is THC however it is extracted and the only difference between a bottle of Dispo concentrate and your potent oil is that theirs has been tested and you need to do your own test drive to determine potency. You are doing that right now with your chocolate treats.

So, lets do the math on this batch to give you a baseliine:

I'm going to assume that your oil was closer to 600 mg/ml of THC. The 1000mg/ml may be appropriate for commercial extractions but 600-700 is a better estimate for QWET extraction and reduction to oil.

So you added one ml of your oil, containing 600mg of THC, to 76.6 grams of chocolate.

That means the resulting THC concentration per gram of chocolate was 600mg of THC divided into 76.6 grams of chocolate = 7.8mg per gram of chocolate.

Your first dose was 7.6 grams of chocolate with 7.8 mg per gram = 59 mg of THC passing your lips (7.6gr x 7.8mg/gr) That dose made you high AF (as the kids say!).

On your second session you upped the dose to 11.4 grams so using the same formula (11.4gr x 7.8 mg/g) = 89mg of THC in your body. That dose made you even more buzzed!

If you medicate with an even higher dose it's likely you won't even be able to stand up!

I'd suggest instead that you go down the other path and use your chocolate testing to see how low a dose it takes to begin to feel an effect. I'm guessing that down around 3 grams of your chocolate (about 23mg of THC) will give you a pleasant and relaxing feeling and allow you to sleep without feeling groggy in the morning. Once you find that sweet spot you can adjust up or down in to achieve the effect you want.

The really good news is that despite the trials and tribulations, your project is a great success: a powerful medicine you created with your own hands!

[Poppa]

Right now I am more focused on finding the latest time of day I can do either a med or recreational dose and wake up with a clear head. Then I'll work on what would be minimum dose for pain/sleep management and recheck how late in evening I can take it and be good in morning. Yesterday evening about 7 I took a second dose of 9.5 grams it enhanced the buzz I had from the earlier dose to where from 9 to 11 I sat and watched football with no desire to move. I slept good and 13 hours after that 7 pm dose woke up with clear mind and ready to go. Today I will try a dose of the 11.4 grams after dinner well before 7 to see if the recreational or I'm baked dose will have run its course by 8 am. Tomorrow I have yard work and finishing touches to do on kids shed scheduled, nothing to technical so if my minds a bit fuzzy it shouldn't matter.

[Puglover1]

Poppa, taking after eating/dinner can affect the time it starts working. Some people dose on an empty stomach then eat something containing fat within an hour. (I know that chocolate contains fat.) I always forget to dose early enough, like right now it ls 7 pm and I haven't made any firecrackers. I have a dr appt tmrw so it's too late now. When I made a firecracker one night my scale batts were dying, it must've been 1.5 grams or more of decarb weed. I was on the laptop and all of a sudden I felt head buzzed, by the time I went to bed hours later walking down the hallway I felt like I was tripping on 'shrooms or something. I don't wake up 'hungover' but I don't awake with the chickens either.