HYDRO What's going bad with the growing of my plant ?

[Jalbit]

I'm trying to figure out what is the problem with the growing of my plant.




The upper leafs are quite normal, even if they tend to bend downwards.




The old leafs start with brown spots and then they become yellow and curled on the peaks.




First I supposed a Phosphorus and Calcium deficiency due a high PH and I adjusted the PH to 5,5. Then I guessed an overwatering or an excess of nutrients.




In this Diary you can find all info about the growing state:




I also atttached some picture that can help understand the plant state.




Can you please help me to understand what's going on ?




Thanks




J.

[dhll999]

Could be calcium deficiency

https://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabis-plant-problems/calcium-deficiency

[YYCannabis]

Are you familiar with these very important pics?

You need pH of 6.2 for calcium uptake. If you have been keeping it at 5.5, you’re going the wrong direction.

[DeadlyFruit]

Completely agree with YYC. Be sure you are checking pH (with a well calibrated pH meter) and coming in at the right range. I don’t think the cheap ones are so bad but learn to calibrate it if you don’t already know and get the necessary chemicals. I like to get a bottle of reference solution premixed so I know with certainty how far off my meter is (they can slip out of whack a lot easier than I’d realized). I am giving you wisdom on something I learned the hard way

[DeadlyFruit]

Ignore me, it looks like you are already looking at pH. I have to learn to read to the end before I write something 😀

[Jalbit]

Hi YYCannabis thx so much for your advices.

Actually I follow a table that is slighty different from the one you posted (I attachedi it)



As the signals seem to me a P deficency I lowered the PH, but now is again to 6.3 (note the spots appear before i lowered the PH)

Many thx for the table to track th environemnt changes, very helpful. I will follow it for sure.

Now I adjusted the solution lowering the EC to 1.2 (it was 1.4) and raising PH to 6.3 again.

Let see what happens. I will let you know.


Here a picture of the roots. Are them ok in your opinion ?

Thx

J.

[TheKieftan]

I’m not a hydro guy but I’m pretty sure those roots aren’t supposed to be brown

[YYCannabis]

Brown roots can be caused by the nutrients. Mine are always brown.

[BassBuds]

Brown nite stained roots are ok, but slimey roots like the right are no bueno

[BassBuds]

Yeah, you definitely have some root rot going on. Here's how I deal with root rot.
Flush the plants with plain PH'ed water with some extra strength hydrogen peroxide to kill the current root rot for 24 hours only.
Do a reservoir change after 24 hours, with the recommended dose of hydroguard (2ml/gallon), and a half dose of your veg nutrients. Hydroguard is a beneficial organisms which will help protect your roots from getting rotten again.

Make sure your water temps are not too high. Make sure that you have enough air going to the buckets. Also make sure you are completely blocking the light from the top of your medium. Green algae can cause root rot. Blocking the top of your medium (with black plastic, neoprene, etc) will stop the formation of algae.

I dealt with some minor root issues at the beginning of my most recent grow because the airstones got disconnected https://www.rollitup.org/t/indoor-rd...2-800.1050869/

Fast forward a few weeks and my plants have made a 100% recovery!

[SoOrbudgal]

Sounds like BassBuds got some great tips for ya. I don't hydro so no help but know i too see poor colored roots. Good Luck

[YYCannabis]

Hi YYCannabis

I’m not sure where you got that chart, but i don’t think it’s for cannabis. (Please send me link to the website for that chart)..... If you follow the one i posted (from the GWE website) i think you will have much better success. The pH numbers in the one you posted are way out of line from every cannabis book or website i reference to for my own grows in hydro. Have a look at the pic below. It’s from my last grow which follows three different charts/guides (also posted below) that are the keys to my success.

In the picture below, both plants are White Widow (autos) grown hydro in 5 gallon pails. The plant on the left gave me 500g (1lb) and the other plant gave me 311g (11oz). These plants stayed very healthy during the entire veg and flower stages because i follow the information that is proven to be successful. These results are hard to argue with.

The other pic is a VPD (Vapor Pressure Deficit) chart which is key to all growers (indoor or outdoor). Combining the info from this chart and the two I posted earlier will help guide you to growing success as well. 👍

[Jalbit]

The other pic is a VPD (Vapor Pressure Deficit) chart which is key to all growers (indoor or outdoor). Combining the info from this chart and the two I posted earlier will help guide you to growing success as well. 👍

Thx a lot YYCannabis


Sure I will follow your charts from now on...

The T and H in my growbox when the lamps is on,are about 27 °C (80 °F) and 50% of H, so not so good, looking at your chart. When the lamp is off they are about 23 °C (73 °F) and 60% that looks better..

The problem is that I am not able to turn down the T when the lamp is on, even if I use 1 fan and 1 extractor always on in a very little browbox...

The water Temp is always around 23 °C.

Here the last picture of my plant and its roots. Do you think I've a roots rot problem ? Should I make a flush in your opinion ?

Really thx

[YYCannabis]

Here’s my suggestions:
1) i don’t know what those plastic tubes are, I’ll assume they are for recirculating water/top-feed system, but those need to be wrapped with some type of dark tape to keep light from shining through to the water in them. (Causes algae and root issues)
2) if you are doing a top-feed system (totally unnecessary for the age of your plant) stop it. (Risks causing trunk rot)
3) Make sure there is plenty of air being pumped into your nutrient solution (more air is better)
4) follow the 3 charts i posted
5) increase your root treatment (hygrozyme or hydroguard etc) by at least a factor of 2x strength
6) Increase your CalMag nutrient for a couple of weeks.
7) cover the top of the reservoir with something like aluminum foil (cooking foil) to prevent the lights from heating up the black plastic lid.

I know in a small space that temp is hard to control. Try to extract the air from the top space of the tent (where all the hot air is) and open the vents at the bottom of the tent. This should help to bring cooler air into the tent and have it rise up past the plant towards the extraction fan. If getting the temp down is not easy, try getting the daytime humidity up a little bit to fall in line with the VPD chart. Daytime VPD is much more important than nighttime VPD since the plants do most of their growth during the lights-on period. The humidity will increase naturally as the plant gets bigger, which will help reach the target VPD range.

I don’t think your roots are too terrible. They should all have little side whiskers growing out of them. The roots that are smooth have already been damaged by the bad bacteria, but they will still function although not at 100%. I don’t believe there is any negative effects from adding additional root protection to the nute solution. You could even add doses of it in between solution changes without any issue and it will help to treat the bacteria. It might not be a bad idea to pull all the equipment out of the reservoir and give it a really good cleaning with hydrogen peroxide or chlorine bleach (if you use bleach, be sure to rinse everything very well before putting it back into the reservoir) and clean the reservoir as well.

[Jalbit]

thx so much, I will follow all these advices !

[azorahai]

I'm not growing on hydro nor am I using GH nutes, but from what I've read it usually stains your roots brown, as their solutions contain dyes for some reason. The deficiency does look like calcium to me, and this could be for a number of different reasons, but the usual culprits are 1) not enough calcium and/or 2) too acidic a solution. Which nutrient schedule are you following? Are you sure there's enough calcium in the solution? Is the pH of your solution adequate for hydroponic growing?

Edit: it is usually recommended that you add something between 50-65 ppm of calcium after the seedling phase. GH FloraMicro is the one with calcium (5%), but you can also use it in combination with other sources of calcium, such as CaliMagic, as per Nebula/GWE's GH schedule.

[Jalbit]

Hi azorahai thx for your comments.
I started with distilled water adding calmag and nutes. Here the complete solution mix and growing state: https://growdiaries.com/diaries/1001...rnal-by-jalbit
Following the adviced I found here (lowering EC to 1.1 and setting the PH on 6), and also following the charts YYCannabis suggested to me, it seems the situation is going better.
I'm still little worried omn the roots, but I also think that if I had root rot problems, the plant would look uglier on the surface
Here attached th new picture. Let me know what you think, please.
Thx

[azorahai]

I think that as long as you have enough aeration, don't t let light reach into the reservoir, and replace the nutrient solution periodically, the roots shouldn't be rotting. This is most likely just nute stain, but then again I haven't grown on hydro before.

[YYCannabis]

Those wet clay marbles are part of the root issue. They grow algae and bacteria that gets washed down into the reservoir.

[YYCannabis]

What is your feed schedule?

[YYCannabis]

Does your reservoir have a water pump in it?

[Jalbit]

What is your feed schedule?

I started with a distilled water and then put in the solution lot of nutrients (may be too much). You can see the mix below and here the diary:



After I made this res, I had an EC of 1.4 and I think this was the main problem, so I reduced the EC adding distilled water and I don't added any nutrient (so I think the values you see above have been diluted).

As the EC is staying static (1.1) , for now, following your chart, I haven't any feed schedule. My idea is to track the EC and add something only if it's go under 1.

As soon as I see some sign of preflowering my idea is to make a flush with distilled water and FloraKleen for 48h and then follow the GHE tab below (but using less quantity maybe 50% of what is recommended) until I reach an EC of 1.6-1.8

Can you please tell me if I'm on the right way or if you think there is something wrong in my plan ?

Does your reservoir have a water pump in it?

I've 3 pumps working now:

1) for the drip system
2) for the stone in the reservoir
3) for a pipe with a nozzle inserted directly in the rockwool cube

I used the 3rd one when I had the grow problem and for now it is still on because I read everywhere that more oxygen is always the better choice.

I'm not sure if I should leave it on or turn off... Also here your opinion is very welcome



Many compliments for your plants which look really wonderful !!


Thx so much for the time you dedicate to me and sorry for all these questions: this is my first try so I'm looking for any useful advice from expert growers like you.

Bye

J.

[YYCannabis]

That’s a lot of nutrients and additives for such a young plant. I don’t even know what all those are for, but some look like they are for flowering stage (use only during flowering) and some are for root stimulation (only needed until roots reach water). Here’s what I use for my grows:
- micro + veg OR flower (typical 3 part nutrients) depending which stage of growth the plant is in.
- CalMag (for the extra calcium)
- Hygrozyme (root protection)

That’s it.... That’s all.....I do not ever use both flower and veg nutrients at the same time. It’s one or the other added to the micro nutrients. **Reduce your nutes to the bare minimum micro+Veg, CalMag, and hydroguard (or whatever you use for root treatment)** It will take a few days for your plant to settle into the new diet and balance out all the excess she has been fed.

Next issue....you can’t just “add something” when the EC gets low. This causes a buildup of unconsumed nutes that will become toxic to the plant. For the size/age of your plant, you should be doing a full water change every 7-10 days with *one* additional plain water top-up in between. This prevents a toxic buildup of excess nutes. If you read my signature block below my posts, you will see the 3 key things that need to be checked every day for hydro: water level, ppm/EC, pH.

As for pumps....
1) Do not install a pump INSIDE the reservoir. This contributes to excess warming of the solution and leads to root issues. Plus, it takes up valuable space away from the total volume of solution in the DWC pail.
2) Oxygen in the solution is very important. I assume you are using a regular air pump since you mentioned a stone in your comment. If possible, mount the air pump so it is slightly higher than the top of your reservoir. It can be placed lower, but only if you have a check-valve in line so the water doesn’t siphon out of the bucket during a power failure. This can help to introduce cooler air into the reservoir to prevent root rot. Placing the air pump up high in the tent will mean it pumps warm air into the reservoir which is a recipe for disaster.
3) pumping water through the rockwool cube creates issues with “trunk rot” and higher “root rot”. Top feeding is only necessary until the roots reach the water in your reservoir. Once they dip their toes in the water, they are now fully up and running.

I made a comment on your Growdiaries journal. I needed to correct the record on that comment from someone that claimed DWC can’t get root rot 😂

[YYCannabis]

I should also mention that when you fill you pail, only fill it so that the water level is just below the basket. You want a small air gap between the water and the basket.

[Jalbit]

thanks so much YYCannabis these kind of suggestions are exactly what I need as newbie grower.

To give an answer to your question about my grow box setup (pumps, pipes and so on), I uploaded a video on my diary, you can see it here:

ou should be doing a full water change every 7-10 days with *one* additional plain water top-up in between.

Ok, so I think this is the time to do it. I learned the lesson: only few and specific nutes like: flora micro grow and cal-mag (I need it starting from distilled water). At the moment I don't have any root protection product, but only root stimulator, and I didn't find the Hygrozyme , but I think I can buy and use NITROZYME instead. Is it ok ?.


I've a couple of questions here:

1) before to change the res, I should make a water flush using the flora kleen and clean water or I should only change the res ?

2) as far as I understood is better not to follow the GHE chart, so what is in your opinion the best mix for my growing stage ? something like this can work ?

• micro 0,8 ml/L
• grow 1,5 ml/L
• calmag 0,8 ml/L
• nitrozyme ???

3 key things that need to be checked every day for hydro: water level, ppm/EC, pH.

I learned this lesson as well ! I'm tracking about every 12h all these values and taking the corrective actions following the chart you posted.

As far as I can see for now: the water goes down, the Ec reamin static and the PH goes up. When I see the PH goes up to 6.8, I just add a little of PH- to balance the water.

Also I'm trying to follow the T/H chart.

As you can see from the pictures of my diary, it seems the growing is going better now, thanks to your advice. I am very grateful !

Bye

J.

[YYCannabis]

If all else fails, this is what i would call a “last resort” option if i was in dire need of root treatment. I have not tried it, but it has been done successfully by growers.

https://www.trees.com/gardening-and-landscaping/hydrogen-peroxide-hydroponics

[Jalbit]

I'm from Italy and I found the hydroguard here: https://www.idroponica.it/botanicare...0ml~49213.html
If you confirm me it's ok I will purchase it asap.
Thx

[YYCannabis]

Yup. That’s it. 👍

[YYCannabis]

Any progress with the plants?

[Jalbit]

I made defoliation and LST yesterday. Can you give a look and give me aby suggestion please ? https://growdiaries.com/video/4024640
Thx

[YYCannabis]

The defoliation looks good. 👍
What are you feeding her now? Just the GHE trio and CalMag?

[Jalbit]

The EC now is between 1,3 - 1,4