ph and ppm dropping

[DWC4ME]

Hello family, quick question. I have an auto green crack in its 3rdish week of flower and my ppm and PH are dropping daily. Set at 6.0 next morning 5.2 and ppm drops about 30 points. I always thought dropping ppm meant a weak solution but don't know what it means for the PH to drop also. Any ideas??

[9fingerleafs]

Yes. Maybe the plants are just eating the food

[DWC4ME]

Would that cause my PH to drop also...

[9fingerleafs]

That is the real mystery. I know nothing about dwc but the chemistry should be the same than with soil. A higher EC usually means lower ph cause most nutrients and supplements are acidic. But they also buffer. So the EC going down doesn't necessarily means ph going up. It means it need less acid/base to change the ph. The relationship between the water EC and the plant EC is what makes the difference between leaching nutrients out the soil and the plant absorbing nutrients. So it's pretty common once the plant has higher EC than the water in the soil the water starts to dissolve salts off the ground. This procces leads to high EC and low ph. Definetly not what is happening to you. I'm not getting to any conclusion it's just what I know about the subject. So we can figure this out. like a brain storm

[PigSquishy]

Is this in hydro and if so how big is the reservoir to how many plants and how big are the plants? I can't imagine how you would be getting these readings in soil, so I am going to assume this is hydro. How often are you changing out your water? Water temp?

[DWC4ME]

It's hydro, 5gal bubble buckets filled with three gallons of solution. Rez change weekly. One plant per bucket, about a ft tall. Water temp around. 60 degrees Fahrenheit.

[PigSquishy]

Yeah then I'd expect big shifts in pH and in PPM's especially with cool water the plants can really uptake the water and nutes in a set up like that, in hydro your pH and PPM's can really shift up and down a lot during flowering with cooler temps because the plant can really uptake everything and really grow a lot in short periods of time. It really sounds like you got everything set up perfectly to get some great results.

[DWC4ME]

Ok I'm back. The first two picks are green crack. Same plant different angles. Shes the one I'm having issues with. The next two are lsd 25, she's ugly as hell but readings say she's doing fine. The dry erase boards are my readings since Saturday. I'm at 1/2 strength Gh nutes plus hydrogaurd. The numbers next to the plant names is my current recipe. In ml, first number is micro, then grow, then bloom. I'm in about the 3ish week of flower. Ideas? No. Questions?

[DWC4ME]

Bumpy bump

[DWC4ME]

DW2 where's all my hydro growers?

[PigSquishy]

First things first have you carefully inspected the leaves, stems and under the leaves for pests, diseases, and mold? Look at the RH and temps of the room, look to see if your temps can gotten too cold both water and air temps. I would also be checking my roots too, checking oxygen levels, check the bucket see if anything inside or outside of it has changed... Honestly it could be any number of issues or problems, the key is that you have to narrow down what those potential causes are.

[DW2]

DWC4ME, I'm not sure what would cause the pH to drop, it should rise (become more basic) as the nutrients are absorbed by the plant. The pH in my reservoirs starts out at 6.0 with all of the neut and supplements (I do not use a ppm meter so I do not know that data) and goes up to 7.0 - 7.5 during veg and usually about 6.5 - 6.75 during bloom. What is the temperature of the water in the bucket and is it well aerated? Can you check inside to see if the is any dead or dying roots or decaying organic matter in there?
On my last grow, I nearly killed of three of my plants by trying to adjust the pH in the reservoir too quickly. The wilted down in less than 20 minuets! All I could think of was to drain and flush (with 6.0 water) and start over. The plants recovered and I never add pH up or down directly into the tanks, I check the pH at mid week and adjust the top off water to the range of 5.5 to 6.5 as needed to bring the reservoir pH. into that range.
The only suggestion I have is to drain and flush out the bucket if you can and refill with fresh water and nutrients. I wish You good luck with this problem.

[PigSquishy]

As the above post got me to remembering, the very simple issue can sometimes be caused by the way someone does their water changes in my personal opinion. First I would recommend the water be within a couple of degrees of the water you are going to change it out with. As far as pH goes, I had an issue in the past with a couple pH Down products were I would set the pH today and within 12-24 hrs it would adjust again with or without nutes; I switched to a different pH Down and now when I set the pH it stays at that reading 10-mins and beyond... Once the nutes are added, the pH is adjusted and the temp set that is when I would quickly change the water out without disturbing the roots any more than you have to. While I do realize this sounds easy, but the problem behind why people don't do this is because its a big hassle as you have to warm up that much water. One idea people have is to use hot water straight from the tap, but that adds extra minerals to the solution, think of how hot water gets all corroded with minerals on facets, pipes, etc...

Regarding the pH rise and fall I can tell you this, sometimes my pH will rise and sometimes the pH will fall as long as it remains within the set range, I don't worry about it. Going according to the nutes chart and recommendations, it says to set the pH to 6.0 and then let it fluctuate anywhere within the range from 6.5 to 5.5 without making any changes. Different nutrients are picked up by the plant at different pH levels, 6.0 is just the most common place for all the nutes to be accessed by the plant, the higher or lower the pH goes the more available some nutes become as the less available others become.

Another thing that has caught my attention was you are using 1/2 the nutes, and here is my personal advice... DON'T... Start with full strength and go from there if its to strong weaken the mix, most times the recommended dose is the best to start with.

Overall it could be a list of potential things, you mentioned you don't have a TDS-EC meter get one, look on Amazon buy one for $10 that reads temp, EC, & TDS. Knowing how strong the solution is really can make a huge difference, I also realize nobody has even asked about the water you are using. Tap or RO Water? What's the ppm's of that, do you even know what all is in your water, if tap water look up your water report it will tell you all kinds of things in your water. What is in the water before you even add nutes can make a huge difference as to what nutes you may then have to much of, some people think the way the water is treated matters, and it does if your tap water smells of bleach for example. So really at the end of the day you really have to do a lot of researching, learning and be able to try to narrow down a lot of the problem on your own, Part of becoming a good grower is the hours you spend trying to figure out what a problem is and then taking the steps to fix it, unlike mechanical things plants don't make sounds that go "clunk" located in the middle of the plant to tell anyone of us what's wrong, All we get is to see the plant suddenly not happy, it gets sick and we are helpless and it is scary, but despite all these really amazing photos people post all over the internet the same problems can look similar, you may go through 100 photos of a problem to find one person's photo of that problem that matches your problem. Even when you do find and figure out your problem it doesn't just stop right away because you fixed it, which is where you really have to rely on your own research to double and triple check to see if you got it right.

Really at the end of the day I have books on all kinds of various garden issues listing every type of garden problem from diseases, molds, insects, nutrients, and so on down the line it goes... And every one of those lists starts with making sure the RH is within a set point, the temps are within, and it goes down all the basics and then into all the other issues. Sincerely hope this helps you.

[DW2]

Unless you live in Flint Michigan or Your local Department of Water does not know what they are doing, then there is nothing wrong with using tap water for your plants. The reverse osmosis and distillation removes all of the beneficial and necessary minerals from the water like calcium, manganese, boron, sodium and other trace minerals. Why take them out only to put them back with a 'micro' nutrient? I use tap water and a fertilizer that does not have a 'micro' component and my plants are doing very well. It could be that using tap water, with all of it's minerals in it, and adding a 'micro' supplement, might over load the plants. People need very small doses of things like iodine, but in excess, it will kill you. Maybe it's the same for the plants.
I DO appreciate Your input and welcome all suggestions (ignoring the very rude ones! LOL) because "Thru knowledge comes Buds!"

[PigSquishy]

Well in response to the tap water, I don't live in the State of Michigan and I can tell you my tap water is 980-ppm coming right out of the tap, not just my house either, I've checked with the EPA, City, and the State and yes those reading at 980-ppm are correct with high levels of Cal-Mag and even some reporting high levels of sulfur. Oh and before you go thinking this is well water, is is not, this is a treated "city water" and yes if you go look up the recommended ppm's for growing you will see 980-ppm are excessive. But hey this is still better than the hard water we had before they switched us over to the new treatment water... How about those reports about medications of all types from street drugs to heart, diabetic drugs, etc... all being found in tap water that has been treated in a city... I would link you to proven Federal Reports showing you this isn't some conspiracy nut dreaming something up, but sadly you will have to do your own digging on this one because I don't wish to get into trouble for posting links to other sites.

On top of even all this, I just dealt with someone last month who had to have me explain the water notice they got in the mail saying there was a problem and all the water for the past 2-3 months was excessively high in chlorine levels and what that could mean for people and pets. Or how about this summer when yet another person I know and others around there were told there was an issue with water mains bringing them water and had an ebola outbreak as raw sewage somehow got into their water supply and to boil the water until further notice while they work to fix the problem.

Really at the end of the day if all these "problems" were so far out and remote, then perhaps you could explain to me why big box stores sell "Water Tests" for everything from Radon, Water Tests, and Lead In Water Tests, all before Flint Michigan hit the news... My personal opinion because issues with water are a lot more common then you are clearly giving credit too, which again look at the amount of water purification products sold in all kinds of outlet stores for Brita and Pur, if so many people were buying those products, then so many random stores would not sell them. Which by the way is how a friend of mine found he has lead pipes from the street connection to his house last year, which had never been replaced by the city and had to do it himself. But like a commercial for Pur I saw recently a man offers you a glass of water "this one contains acceptable amounts of lead according to the EPA, and this one doesn't"... their point which one do you want to drink?

Now if you want to go to the books on Growing Cannabis like authors like Ed Rosenthal, they will even tell you "get a copy of your water report" and find out what is in your water and decide from there what steps you may need to take to use it for plants. If I don't treat my water I will kill my plants within 30-days doesn't matter if its potted plants or in my gardens outside in the soil. When you call a nutrient company, as I did recently when I spoke to more than one of them in the same day, one of the first questions they ask is the PPM's of your water and if you know what all is in your water to know what makes up those PPM's. This is exactly why one brand of fertilizer for you can work amazing and right next door it doesn't work for the next person, because one can contain more nutes than the other of a nute which is already high or low in your yard, thus making the difference in it working for you or not. Thus why some people will swear by one fertilizer and condemn another believing it doesn't work as they claimed it would.

So please don't make it appear as if I am clueless here or haven't been doing my research for years now, because I've been in hydroponics now for over 20-years and I've been gardening for coming close to 40-years now... and unlike others I've taken the time to my in depth research in books, online, and even called "Professionals" in their fields to learn even more to make sure what I claim to know is true and correct. Because at the end of the day I am really willing to back up everything I say with facts you can take a minute to go put into a search bar and see if I am telling the truth or not... as I do take accuracy and truth as serious things.

[DW2]

It was not my intent to nullify or cast dough on You or Your information. I was stating my results from my experience. The tap water here is a mix of water from several wells and from a man made reservoir, all treated before going into the city water lines. I'll just consider myself lucky that I do not have a lot of problems with the local water supply.