HELP! Lime Green leaves, PH issues & other discolorations

[Grundogg]

Hi!
So I was going to do 3 separate threads for my issues but I figured the info from one thread was important for diagnosis of issues in another thread. Anyway, I’m a first time grower looking for some help here so would really appreciate your patience. Thanks all!
Until now I have always had to use PH down or vinegar to lower ph of water since my City water is high ph. I started using nutes a few weeks ago and I just assumed if I brought the water ph down to 7 and then added the nutes (half dose) then I would be fine. I got a ph tester and realized I was giving plants way too low ph soliton. So, now I add the nutes to water (after sitting water out for 48 hours) and then ad PH up. My question is how much PH up is too much? I read places that only a few drops are needed, however, I find myself needing 15 ML per gallon to raise the ph of the solution from 5-5.5 (after nutes) to 6.5. I’m using General Hydroponics PH Up. Is adding 15 ml too much? Seems like I’m adding a lot of this solution… also, is there an alternative ph up that I could use to raise the ph of my solution to the 6.5 range?

In a related issue, 2 of my plants are starting to turn lime green… I’ve been adding 1/4 to 1/2 strength fox farm bloom nutes (not also adding some “grow” during first 2-5 weeks of flower as is recommended by fox farm. Should I also be adding grow and this is a nitrogen deficiency on the line green plants? For the one plant with a few random discolored leaves I’m not sure what the issue is here. Keep in mind that I had MAJOR PH issues (too low) and nutrient lockout during the first 1-2 weeks of flower. I did a heavy flush one week worth with straight water (lots) and one flush with FF sledgehammer. This got my ph runoff to 6.5 when feeding with a 6.5 1/4-1/2 strength bloom solution with 1/4 teaspoon Beastie Bloom. I’ve fed this solution for last 2 weeks. They don’t seem to be getting more like green but they aren’t getting darker. I’m in week 5-6 of flower and I’m a first time grower. Any tips here will be greatly appreciated!

1 more thing… I was gonna leave this off to not complicate things but on the 1 plant that isn’t lime green but has recently had some odd colored leaves (random ones here and there,) in trying to normalize ph (raise it) I added a couple tablespoons of Dolamite lime to the top inch or two of soil (mixed it in.) This helped to normalize my ph runoff but I’m wondering if this is causing a few leaves to yellow… I only did this to 1 of the 3 plants. I also have 4 larger plants in the basement using a totally diff set up and they don’t have this lime coloration (well 2 of them do have a little lime coloring.) I did several different set-ups because this is my first time and I wanted to try all sorts of diff things… I also had some plants that started outside so they were in a diff stage so I needed to put them in a separate bigger tent (per advice of someone on this site.) I have 6 different strains. The 3 in the pic below with issues are Bubblegum, AK, and White Widdow.

Last thing… if the leaves continue to yellow, how soon am I allowed to remove the buds and dry them? In an attempt to salvage in case things start getting worse, since I have some buds that have developed could I harvest soon if needed? Thanks all for your patience!!

[Grundogg]

Also not sure if this is an issue but some of the lime green leaves have red/purple stems.. not sure if this is a sign of an issue

[ChadWestport]

1- It does seem like a lot, but I can say I have to use the same amount of that product to produce the same adjustment in my water / feed. I also try and let it sit out for 24-48 hours, so kudos on that. I've found that the Ph up is usually needed in a larger dose to have the same effect of the Ph down, I also use the GH products. From my experience, this is not unordinary. I always add the nutrients and then Ph the solution.

2- You seem to have a good handle of what is going on, what should be happening and how to correct it. You've down your homework and are on a good path in regards to that issue. The color though, may be a result of washing out your micronutrients in the soil. These things are not needed in large supply, but are needed. With a uniformly lime green plant, I would look into sulphur as being a potential benefit for you. Lower, larger leaves will turn yellow and fall off as the plant is in flower, the plant is sending mobile nutrients like nitrogen to the upper growth to support their vigor.

3- Running multiple systems using different methods can be challenging for any grower, a new grower especially. Might try and keep it simple next time and really focus on how the read your plants instead of focusing on a variety of techniques. If you had a Ph issue that was locking out nutrients and you've also done a flush, there might not be an adequate supply in the root zone. Generally with a flush mid grow, you add a light nutrient solution to the mix to replace the ones that the flush is moving out.

4- You'll want to use the trichomes on the buds to determine when to harvest. While it's great to have nice green and lush leaves all the way through, I've made it to harvest with some pretty pathetic and crunchy looking leaves in the past. Do what you have to do, but don't pull your buds early because of the leaves.

5- Red stems can be a sign of phosphorus deficiency. Could be from the lock out, flush or just a lack of it in the root zone. In flower, plants generally want less nitrogen and more potassium and phosphorus.

[Grundogg]

That was so amazingly thorough. I really appreciate it. I posted the same thread (copy-pasted) into another growing forum and while I got more # of replies, nothing close to this thorough. in response to your replies (good idea numbering them btw, lol,) 1.) that is reassuring knowing it’s not just me with the high amounts of PH up. 2.) I’m trying.. been reading a LOT.... but having a really hard time finding way to determining whether you have a nute deficiency in your soil/solution or if it’s a nute lock-out and the plant can’t take up the nutes that are there.. would foliar feeding be a way to tell if it’s nute lockout vs lack of nutes? also, how to get just sulfur as a nute? 3.) how long after the flush do you add nutes? I read to flush w Sledgehammer (leave a gallon or two of solution saturating the soil for 45 mins) and then follow it up w many many gallons of fresh water to flush it. Then I was told you do straight water for a week before adding nutes.. since the flush is not just about nutes washing out of soil but instead the plant using up the residual excess nutes. I watered plain water 2 weeks. I also may have overdone the flush. I flushed most with 7-10 gallons prob.. I had a hard time getting my hands on 25 gallons of water (read you need to flush with 5x the size gallon of your pot) so I placed the one plant that had bad nute lock under the shower and let it rain for 30 mins on low volume. I estimate 15 gallons total ran through the pot. (obv not best idea but thought it was kinda like rain.. and it was just on 1 of the plants and I wasn’t planning on taking the time to get the Chloramine out of 25 gal of water and then pore all that water through the plant... plus I already had the plant in the shower, and my ph was low so I figured if a higher ph water ran through it steadily it would help balance the ph out... I later read that the water needs to be low ph 6.2-5 even when flushing high ph soil b/c the nutes them are allowed to disolve.. so that prob wasn’t best idea.. also I so figured if water temp was ok and it flowed slow enough it would be ok... anyways.. maybe I washed away too many nutes... but... I gave nutes for 2 waters now (almost 2 weeks) and still lime green... maybe not enough? I have 1 tsp tiger bloom, 3 tsp big bloom (FFs micro) and 1/4 teaspoon beastie blooms per gallon. So, I would think that is enough to fix the N problems.. now I noticed some leaves are slightly curled down.. I also read I should only give nutes every other water... so, since I gave 2 weeks worth of nutes should I stop and water for 1 week straight? Flush again? Lol.
4.) good thoughts. 5.) See above, enough Phosph in the solution I gave last 2 weeks?

Again, I really really appreciate your help here and time you were willing to take to respond.

Since you seem to know you stuff AND are willing to reply, I have a couple more semi-related questions if you would be so kind to oblige?!?!? I know you already have like 5 above in my reply to answer first. Hehe. Don’t want to ask for too much... thanks again!

[ChadWestport]

Thank you man, this is a great forum and lots of helpful people are about. I'm happy to offer my input.

1- yep, not just you

2- That is a tough one and usually an educated guess because we lack the equipment to get the proper answer. The first thing to check is if your Ph in the soil is out of balance. If it is, that should be addressed first. Second, lets say we know it is a nitrogen deficiency and you add nitrogen, but after days there is no improvement and maybe even worsening conditions. That would indicate the plants inability to use that nutrient, which could be caused by lock out. Foliar sprays are a great way to quickly give your plant things like calcium and magnesium. I'm not a foliar person but I imagine other nutrients can be used in moderation. You can find supplements with sulphur as the main ingredient. I usually hit my plants once or twice with an agricultural epsom salt and that has a high amount of sulphur in it.

3- Keep in mind, this is for when you need to flush in the middle of growing, these are slightly different instructions than I would give for a final flush. Usually as you pour your last can of water through the plants as you flush, that is a good one to add the nutrients into. You've flushed the soil with the first few cans but you replace some of the nutrients washed out on the last can. Nutrients will leach out at different rates, calcium gets flushed out very easily, so replacing some of the reserves after stripping it, is beneficial. If the leaf tips are bending down, it can be a sign of too much water in the lower root zone, not enough oxygen. If the tips are hooking down, this can be a sign of EC imbalance. Putting that much water through it at a high Ph may sometimes cause a big Ph swing and the plant can take a little time to recover from that.

4- thank you.

5- 15ml = 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon. I typically use 10ml of tiger bloom per gallon when I feed. The amount of phosphorus (p) in the tiger bloom is the highest ratio and should be a good amount for healthy growth.

I think the roots might be a little water logged at the moment and the bottom of the pots needs to dry out a little to increase the oxygen levels in the soil, which will in turn help nutrient uptake. Warm temperatures will also help this process.When the air and roots are cold, they don't transpire as much and they use less water from the roots.

Ask away, I will make my best attempt to answer them for you

[PaganRich]

Hi mate...I`ve had similar probs and you will get through it and the advice above is great but there was one thing I saw and sorry if it`s been covered but I have a high Ph from my tap....7.6 and like you I use white vinegar as I do organic grows however what I didn`t appreciate was that the calcium in the water was very high as well....now I`m not sure on the details here but vinegar does remove calcium from water but whether the residue remains behind or just gets reabsorbed afterwards I cannot say but I would be interested to know if you find out. Anyway, I brew compost teas, lower my ph to low 6`s...the tea brews and the ph rises so I add vinegar again prior watering....long and short of this being the mottled light green/ dark green patterning effect has gone from my girls...it didn`t help that I also misconstrued the lime green reasoning for the leaves and added Calmag which only exasperated the issue. Also, high calcium in water not only can cause various nute lockouts as well but can give a burnt tip that looks a lot like nute burn in some cases so it`s a tricky thing but very easy to find out. Get the breakdown on the ph/ water quality on your water suppliers page and see what levels your calcium`s at...if it`s high then you need to incorporate that into your thinking. When I did this-and I ph compost tea now regardless what sites reckon-and got on top of my watering practices, the issues disappeared...so check your water`s calcium levels cos where I live, most bedrock is limescale. The lime green for me was nute lockout due to excess calcium but that might not be the sole case here just poss a contributory factor. Anyway, just some thoughts for you....all the best mate

[Grundogg]

Thanks for the reply mate. What would be considered high Ca levels for tap? And are you saying I should go back to using vinegar to help get calcium out and then PH up to get it back to normal? I just bought some CalMag since two others on another site told me that was the issue.. what do you do to bring your PH back up after you add vinegar? I’m going through a ton of this ph up stuff.. would rather use something natural.

[PaganRich]

Grundogg My Calcium is 203 mg/l which puts it at hard...here, check this out....https://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.co...-plants/#signs I cannot do Reverse Osmosis in my house plus bottled spring water over here has a ph of 7 upwards which is also no good so all I do is add white vinegar to lower the ph to around 6.5 and use that vinegar to counter some of the calcium-it`s no where near as good as RO water but there`s only so much money you can chuck into a hobby so I personally go with the vinegar....when I do this with my compost tea the brewing procedure-if its not fungal tea-seems to increase the ph again during brewing so I take it down again to mid 6`s. I def wouldn`t drop below 6 and I find 5ml to 7.5ml of vinegar will drop the ph from say 7.6 down to 6.5 region per 2 gals. I wouldn`t massively blast it with vinegar to try and remove the calcium and then add Up or an organic alternative as that`s really mucking the water around so for me it`s just reduce, monitor and reduce again if need be and try to minimalise the impact of the calcium. Doing that has addressed lockout which was a reason for the light green leaves I was having. Now I`m not saying this is the case as you need to go to your water supplier`s page first and check out the hardness/ CaCO3 in your area but if other options do not work then this may be the case. When I first got it I hit the CalMag except for me, it wasn`t the right option. Have a look at this....`Total Hardness-203 mg/l CaCO3` is how it looks on my page with Hard the official category.....so, go with the above options from the other growers as they are very experienced lads and if that doesn`t work then have a butchers at the calcium side and see how that looks. Try and not get too stressed if you can, I find these things take a grow or 2 to figure out but you will get there mate....I hope this covers your question

[Grundogg]

[QUOTE=ChadWestport;n469646]Thank you man, this is a great forum and lots of helpful people are about. I'm happy to offer my input.

1- yep, not just you

2- That is a tough one and usually an educated guess because we lack the equipment to get the proper answer. The first thing to check is if your Ph in the soil is out of balance. If it is, that should be addressed first. Second, lets say we know it is a nitrogen deficiency and you add nitrogen, but after days there is no improvement and maybe even worsening conditions. That would indicate the plants inability to use that nutrient, which could be caused by lock out. Foliar sprays are a great way to quickly give your plant things like calcium and magnesium. I'm not a foliar person but I imagine other nutrients can be used in moderation. You can find supplements with sulphur as the main ingredient. I usually hit my plants once or twice with an agricultural epsom salt and that has a high amount of sulphur in it.

good idea. I’ll add a bit of epsom salt. How much should I add?

3- Keep in mind, this is for when you need to flush in the middle of growing, these are slightly different instructions than I would give for a final flush. Usually as you pour your last can of water through the plants as you flush, that is a good one to add the nutrients into. You've flushed the soil with the first few cans but you replace some of the nutrients washed out on the last can. Nutrients will leach out at different rates, calcium gets flushed out very easily, so replacing some of the reserves after stripping it, is beneficial. If the leaf tips are bending down, it can be a sign of too much water in the lower root zone, not enough oxygen. If the tips are hooking down, this can be a sign of EC imbalance. Putting that much water through it at a high Ph may sometimes cause a big Ph swing and the plant can take a little time to recover from that.

can you flush too much? How often should I flush? I could have had too high of ph now since I’ve been using super low in the past...so they are just now getting used to normal 6.5 ph water?

4- thank you.

5- 15ml = 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon. I typically use 10ml of tiger bloom per gallon when I feed. The amount of phosphorus (p) in the tiger bloom is the highest ratio and should be a good amount for healthy growth.

Since I gave them feed 2 waters in a row and I read you are supposed to alternate feeding w reg water, should I wait 1 regular watering before feeding again?

I think the roots might be a little water logged at the moment and the bottom of the pots needs to dry out a little to increase the oxygen levels in the soil, which will in turn help nutrient uptake. Warm temperatures will also help this process.When the air and roots are cold, they don't transpire as much and they use less water from the roots.

How could they get waterlogged if I let the plants get completely bone dry and then give them 2 gallons roughly or until 10% runs off.. and they are in smart pots. Also it’s about 85 degrees during day in tent and drops to 70 at night. Is there something I should be doing differently watering wise to prevent water log?

Ask away, I will make my best attempt to answer them for you [/QUOTE

6.)
i think you answered most of my questions... thanks! only other 1 I had was in regards to foliar feeding. Was wondering if I foliar feed 2-3 colas (1/4 of the plant) of the foliar feed cal/Mag will only affect those leaves/colas or if it is very mobile and will transfer the nutes to the other 3/4 of the plant?

7.) do you have any thoughts about the too high Ca possibly in my tap water mentioned from Paganrich’s reply?

8.) So, all-in-all knowing what you do about my situation what do you think I should do with the next couple watering/feedings? Give some cal/Mag and N and more Big Bloom since I only gave half what you have been giving?

[ChadWestport]

6 - Never foliar feed a cola. IMO, don't foliar feed anything when you are in flower.

7 - It is one of the most common minerals in tap water. If you test the ppm (parts per million) of the tap water, a high reading usually means high calcium and minerals. Everyone has different tap water, so knowing ppm helps answer that question. There is definitely such a thing as too much calcium. It will lock out other nutrients and cause negative effects on growth. So moderation is good with that.

8 - What are they looking like today? Any pics of some bad leaves and a whole plant pic? When was the last time you watered or fed?

[Grundogg]

I feel so dumb... this whole time I have been measuring only TDS and PH of tap, mixed solution and runoff.. I just I thought EC was just another way of measuring TDS. I just measured my tap before and after adding nutes. The TDS was 140 before adding cal Mag and 440 after adding cal Mag; my EC was 260 micro s/cm before adding cal Mag and 960 micro s/cm. I read online that the EC should be between 1.5-2.5 but I think they are referring to ms/cm instead of micro s/cm (I can’t find how to use the micro symbol.) anyway, if that’s true then my EC after adding cal mag is still 4 x higher than it should be right? Or is micro 1000 m? Or 100 x m? I can look that up.. bigger question is a tap of 260 micro s /cm too high? And if so, how do I bring it down? Also, if me only adding a light cal Mag solution brings it up to 960 EC (and 440 tds) then how am I ever gonna get it below 2.5 EC? I was hoping to not have to purchase a RO thing and just continue using tap w adjustments made to the water.. any input here would be very helpful!

[Grundogg]

Hi Chad,

thanks for the reply. I think you may have missed my other 2-3 questions in my most recent reply. That was my fault... I had them hidden when I copied “quote” of your reply... so, I reposted them below (mainly numbers 1-5.) thanks for answering 6, 7 and 8. Lol. I have a lot of questions so I really appreciate it. Before I read your recent post, I foliar fed a tiny part (1/4) of AK plant that was the most lime green by using a very mild cal-mag dose. I figured if it messed things up it would just be a learning experience... I did the undersides of leaves attached to 3 colas (but not the colas, just the larger leaves.) I did it about. 10 mins ago so we will see if it makes any difference. I’m anxious to do something to these plants but I feel like I have to wait since the soil is not 100% bone dry yet. Which is prob why I was thinking foliar feed might be OK here. My Last watering was Monday. I soak (roughly 2 gals until about 10-20% runoff) and then water again when bone dry and light weight and maybe starting to wilt a teeny bit. Not sure if that is too extreme or not. This goes to part of 1 of my questions from yesterday that i think you may have missed. Hopefully you have some insight there. I’ll add a couple more pics from today including the 1 that I just foliar fed a small part of the plant today. Also, I have some Bushdoctor come-back formula and some Holy Mackerel. Both of which are high N and low everything else.. maybe 1 of these would help. A couple leaves are switching from lime green to yellow which makes me nervous... but, a lot of the leaves on the plant seem fine.. I’m baffled here... thought I was doing everything right. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!! Pls see my replies below to numbers 2, 3 and 5. Thanks!!


QUOTE=Grundogg;n469832][QUOTE=ChadWestport;n469646]Thank you man, this is a great forum and lots of helpful people are about. I'm happy to offer my input.

1- yep, not just you

2- That is a tough one and usually an educated guess because we lack the equipment to get the proper answer. The first thing to check is if your Ph in the soil is out of balance. If it is, that should be addressed first. Second, lets say we know it is a nitrogen deficiency and you add nitrogen, but after days there is no improvement and maybe even worsening conditions. That would indicate the plants inability to use that nutrient, which could be caused by lock out. Foliar sprays are a great way to quickly give your plant things like calcium and magnesium. I'm not a foliar person but I imagine other nutrients can be used in moderation. You can find supplements with sulphur as the main ingredient. I usually hit my plants once or twice with an agricultural epsom salt and that has a high amount of sulphur in it.

good idea. I’ll add a bit of epsom salt. How much should I add?

3- Keep in mind, this is for when you need to flush in the middle of growing, these are slightly different instructions than I would give for a final flush. Usually as you pour your last can of water through the plants as you flush, that is a good one to add the nutrients into. You've flushed the soil with the first few cans but you replace some of the nutrients washed out on the last can. Nutrients will leach out at different rates, calcium gets flushed out very easily, so replacing some of the reserves after stripping it, is beneficial. If the leaf tips are bending down, it can be a sign of too much water in the lower root zone, not enough oxygen. If the tips are hooking down, this can be a sign of EC imbalance. Putting that much water through it at a high Ph may sometimes cause a big Ph swing and the plant can take a little time to recover from that.

can you flush too much? How often should I flush? I could have had too high of ph now since I’ve been using super low in the past...so they are just now getting used to normal 6.5 ph water?

4- thank you.

5- 15ml = 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon. I typically use 10ml of tiger bloom per gallon when I feed. The amount of phosphorus (p) in the tiger bloom is the highest ratio and should be a good amount for healthy growth.

Since I gave them feed 2 waters in a row and I read you are supposed to alternate feeding w reg water, should I wait 1 regular watering before feeding again?

I think the roots might be a little water logged at the moment and the bottom of the pots needs to dry out a little to increase the oxygen levels in the soil, which will in turn help nutrient uptake. Warm temperatures will also help this process.When the air and roots are cold, they don't transpire as much and they use less water from the roots.

How could they get waterlogged if I let the plants get completely bone dry and then give them 2 gallons roughly or until 10% runs off.. and they are in smart pots. Also it’s about 85 degrees during day in tent and drops to 70 at night. Is there something I should be doing differently watering wise to prevent water log?

[Wolfe0420]

What size are the smart pots? Maybe a little bit root bound?
The roots can choke themselves if they don’t have enough room thus they aren’t absorbing the intended nutrition.

[ChadWestport]

2 - It isn't something that you do often, but I mix 1 tablespoon per gallon and let it dissolve for hours before applying it. I also keep it mixed with an airstone in the water can.

3 - Yes, you can flush too much in a plants life. ideally, you're only doing it once at the end. Some people will do a light flush when they switch from veg to flower. But you run the risk of Ph and EC fluctuations when you flush, too rapid of a change in either can cause issues.

5 - If you are letting the soil get bone dry, that right there could be the issue. That too will fluctuate Ph and EC.

[Grundogg]

Great thanks for the help!! I am using 5gal smart pots. Was told they can’t get root-bound due to the natural air pruning, but again this is my first time so don’t know if true.. all I know is off of books and not by practice...

Thanks again for your help w the other questions!

[Wolfe0420]

5 gal is the standard and I doubt any root bound. I just asked cuz I’ve seen it happen when ppl use 3 gal pots. Root bound can cause like 101 symptoms or more. Hope you figure it out tho. Good luck.