HELP: leaves curling, twisting, drooping & stunted seedling

[doublem]

Hey all, this is my first grow, so maybe this is just my nerves talking, but I think my seedlings are having some issues.

One of my seedlings dried out a few days after sprouting and fell over, when I gave it water it popped back up again, but didn't grow much for several days. It's starting to grow again but the new growth looks odd, I'm not sure what I should expect from a near death experience??

The other seedlings have really started to take off, but now their leaves are looking unhappy, edges on some are curling and the leaves are starting to look twisted and/or droopy. I'm not sure if this would be consistent with heat stress (I've been struggling to keep the temps below 28-30 C°) or if it's a different problem altogether.

So it'd be great if I could get an opinion from someone with more experience; what's going on here and how can I help my babies? I'd also like some tips on how to keep the temps down in the tent. I've got a 440CFM exhaust for a 100ft3 tent, but I can't seem to keep it down. Would adding a recirculating fan reduce the temperature?

anyway sorry for being hypochondriac and thanks in advance for any help you can give

#1- White Widow Auto
#2- White Widow Auto
#3- Amnesia Haze Auto
#4- Amnesia Haze Auto
4x4x6.5 Vivosun grow tent
6" Vivosun Exhaust (440CFM) & Carbon Scrubber
400W Metal Halide arc lamp w/ dimmable digital ballast
Coco coir & perlite grow medium
General hydroponics Flora trio w/CaliMagic
current feed solution:
FloraMicro 2/3 ml/L
FloraGro 2/3 ml/L
FloraBloom 1/6 ml/L
CaliMagic 4/3 ml/L
Avg. dark period conditions: 18C° 60%
Avg. light period conditions: 28C° 37%
Light distance: 45cm
14 days from sprout

[Mr.furley]

doublem
1)you didn't mention your watering practices/schedule or relative humidity?
2) number four has tip burn, what is that wood stuff in the picture around the plant?

[doublem]

Mr.furley
I've been watering whenever the medium gets dry, which has been basically every day with the heat and humidity issues. Watering with plain tap water every other watering, watering with plenty runoff each watering to prevent nutrient buildup. I listed the humidity and temp averages at the bottom of my post; when the lights come on it's been 37% average. I have trays of water with rags in em to try and push the humidity up but it isn't working real well.

The little one's yellow tips are a bit odd, when it dried out the leaves turned yellowish, then when it started growing again the outside stayed yellow while the new growth pushing out from the middle came in dark green. I thought maybe the plant is cannabilizing the section of leaf that was injured when it dried out? I'll attach more pictures of that one. The Woody stuff is wood chips, I accidentally bought a coir mix instead of plain Coco fiber, it has some wood chips in it.

[Colombo]

Any chance of being acidic due to the wood? Naturally acidic 4-5.5 ph. Just a thought.

[doublem]

hmmm, I hadn't heard that about wood chips. I've already filled the bigger pots with mix, but I can go through and pull out the chips by hand if they're problematic.

the bigger pots are fabric pots so maybe water will evaporate from the mix through the fabric and raise the humidity; I guess I'll just transplant as soon as I clear the mix up and hopefully that'll help.

I'm not sure about pH, I pH'd the nutrient solution for 6.0 but I guess I haven't been checking the runoff to see what the medium is at

[Mr.furley]

I think that purpleman is also right about the pots, may check one out one when transplanting for root bound.
Wood chips are good for soil but I don't think they are a good mix in Coco grows where you are adding nutes.

[TLP80905]

It looks to me like your light is too close and since I am having trouble telling how strong your nutrient mix is, I would just say go with whatever General Hydroponics says for seedlings and sprouts since they don't appear ready for a very strong mix yet. I have used GH products on a small scale and you could even go with 1/2 strength in seedling stage.
I usually use a very mild nutrient solution, 1/4 to 1/2 strength and make sure it is Ph balanced and use water that has set for a few days on seedlings, especially, but always for watering all plants.
I have had very good luck with Flora Nova by GH as well as using the trio as it looks like you are doing.

The close nodal lengths tend to indicate too much light, and if you are having heat control problems, that would explain the somewhat distressed appearance that the leaves have. You want the plants to reach for the light, not cower or wilt from it as it appears is happening with them. There should be a little stretching - strain dependant - as they grow to the light and make room for bud sites.
Many growers start seeds under a very low watt T5 fluorescent bulbs in a, or 45W LED panels or strips for the babies.

The other major problem I see is that the plants are not in high enough humidity. For seedling and clones you can do something as simple as putting a plastic grocery or Walmart bag over your tray to enclose it and keep up humidity levels to 70-90%. They will get bigger and tolerate lower humidity. Keep a little water in the bottom of the tray for the roots to reach for, too. Don't just soak from the top. You can also get plastic seedling trays with hoods at walmart or similar hardware or garden supply shops.

The sprouts in the small tray are too wet. Let them dry out some or you may lose them. Again, keep them under low light and keep up humidity which looks okay for those since they appear to be in tray that has a hood. If the hood has vents, keep them open a little to allow a little air to come in, but not enough to dry out. It is a balance that can be hard to find if you have hi temp trouble and things dry out really fast.

Good luck.

[TLP80905]

I hear you about being able to afford extra lights.
Even though you are within the manufacturer's recommendation on light distance, it may be a little close for such early seedlings.
Do you have covers for your trays?
I have also had poor results from those peat starters plugs or cups for cannabis. My best success is with 50/50 perlite vermiculite mix in small cups with drain holes. Red Solo cups or anything cheap. Not dixie cups with wax, though. Put them with seeds 1/2 inch or 1 cm deep into one of those tall covered seedling trays or plastic bag tent and it works real well.
Also, the light will be weaker if you just put the seedlings off to the side of light area and not directly under it until they start to thrive. Putting the little tray into a grocery bag to hold in the humidity will also block some light for a few days until they start growing. Sometimes HID light reflectors have little hot spots that can be much brighter than normal lumens rating.
One positive thing about growing cannabis is that is really does tolerate a lot of stress so even a new grower can have good results after not getting off to best start.
Your nutrient mixture is probably okay but Ph is something that you have to watch. I think Gen Hydro suggests 5.5-6.5 so you should be okay there if you are at 6.0.
I live in CO SPrings here and the humidity is really low most the time. If your humidity is 37% that is pretty low for seedlings. Try a hood over trays or a simple plastic grocery bag lightly pulled over them with some room like a little tent :-)
Are you spraying them with water? Make sure it is Ph balanced too if you are. Don't overspray. A couple of light mists of clear of very light nute mix per day should be enough. The tent bag or cover will help. Plus keep them under very low light at first.
Room temps of 80-85 degrees or about where you are now should be fine.

[doublem]

ah, I think we may have a misunderstanding. the picture of the seedlings in the black tray in post #3 is from a week and a half ago, the pictures in that post are all of plant #4 from the time it dried out to the present; I was trying to show how the yellowing had progressed since it's near death experience.
the pictures in the op are what they look like now.

spraying with water is a great idea tho, I hadn't thought of that. I could prolly mist the sides of the tent too to raise the humidity until the plants are bigger

[TLP80905]

I got you. I see how the little starter cube is inside the peat pot, now.
Let us know how they are doing.
Spraying can help a lot. Put a tiny bit of Micro in it or any other recommended foliar spray. Keep it weak at first, of course.
Definitely cover them to retain humidity.
Peace

[TLP80905]

PS the wood chips in the coco may cause a Ph problem. I will defer to others on that, tough.

[purpleman]

Hey doublem. I'm a week into flower on my first grow too. Furley and these other guys know a lot more than me but I thought I'd throw a couple things out there from my experience, so far. I tried those pots like you have, thinking I would't have to transplant, just put it into a new container with more soil. Well, my plants weren't growing much and I learned that, #1, my soil was too rich, and #2, the roots weren't coming through the pots. I tore the pots away and planted in new soil and they have taken off! Based on what little I know, your babies aren't leggy like mine were, and they don't look burnt, so it seems like your light is good. I never watered that often, probably half that much when they were little.

[doublem]

Thanks for the heads-up on the peat pots, I heard that bit too about the roots growing through, good to know that doesn't work out

[Colombo]

doublem, how are the girls doing and what corrections if any have you done?

[doublem]

Colombo happy to give an update
(I've actually been considering starting a grow journal to update weekly but I'm not sure anyone would be interested, I'm sure my setup is nothing special)
anyway, the biggest change I've made has been transplanting the girls to their bigger containers - 7gal fabric pots. I've also been opening my windows more often at night to try and reduce the temperature; yesterday I got it down to 26C°, which is about the lowest it's ever been with the lights on. I went to a half dozen stores trying to find a good oscillating fan but no one seems to have them in winter in Portland, I guess cause they don't sell very well this season. I ordered one online from Walmart, should be here in a few days. I'm hoping that part of the heat buildup is a hotspot under the wing reflector and that a fan will help break it up.
The addition of the big fabric pots has pushed the humidity up closer to 55%, tho it's down around 45 atm. either way it's much better now. The leaves are looking much happier, not sure whether it was the bigger containers or the higher humidity. although the bottom leaves on #2 are still twisted and spotty, it hasn't gotten any worse and the new growth looks just fine.
rn my worry is just that idk if they are growing slowly or not; they're autos with 17 days on em and I'm not sure how big they should be. I've taken to watering in a circle around the edges of the leaves, I believe I read somewhere that this helps plants grow faster in a new, bigger pot?
I'm also interested in the concept of foliar feeding, I bought a spray bottle and mixed up some 1/8 strength solution for it and I'm planning on misting them right after the lights go out. I'd love some input on that if anyone has experience with that technique.

[Colombo]

Things are looking good ! I try to keep my temps around 72* and found it has helped dramatically. I have a 6" fan for air intake and 6" for vent and this controlled the temps and the have been consistent at 72/73(knock wood) and I water once a week and my plants seem to thrive in this environment. Humidity at 38% to 42%. it takes a little time to dial things in. You will get there! Start a journal, I started a post and hope to change to a journal! There is always an interest in growing, we learn by mistakes and and get better each time! Your roots look tight at the bottom but that will change after transplant. Once they settle in to their new home they normally take off growing and shock the hell out of you! Patience, They will get there! My grow is at My New Years grow from Santa, First time with autos(2) White cheez, Gorilla Glue. I'll be watching! Grow on!!

[doublem]

also, a picture of the rootball on one of the girls while transplanting, I'm not sure if this is rootbound or not, but it was definitely time for a bigger pot