Cloning

[BiggieP]

Can you clone off your clones? If so would they continue to show the same characteristics ? How many generations can be taken ? Would they become weaker with cycles?

[starramus]

Sure you can clone off of your clones. I don't feel that a clone has as much vigor though than from seed.

I've got a cloning question myself. Is it better to pH the water in a cloning machine?

[Mr.furley]

Always PH the water, in the cloner, in the spray bottle.

[starramus]

Thanks Mr. Furley.

[BiggieP]

K. Thanks.. Can't help on your question. Still A novice .

[kingfish]

Sure you can clone off of your clones. I don't feel that a clone has as much vigor though than from seed.

I've got a cloning question myself. Is it better to pH the water in a cloning machine?

Yes, you want to PH the water to 5.7

[starramus]

Thanks kingfish.

[kingfish]

BiggieP, you can clone a plant until you get sick and tired of smoking the same weed. Which in my case would be the 2nd time. Besides there are some strains that you can only get as a clone. "Matanuska Thunder Fuck" is one that comes to mind.

[furrysparkle]

Why? About the only clone genetics?

[KingKush]

You can clone indefinitely off clones. There will be no genetic variation or "drift". Unless you clone different phenotypes, in which case you would want to keep track of them methodically because it's easy to lose track in the cloner.
Over time, Choosing the best plants that grow best for your current situation might land you a single particular phenotype and that would minimize variation also. There are just as many 'clone only' or cloned version of the best strains in the world, but it's far better to create a market for seeds and they are easier to ship.

I dont ph my water but it's probably acid(5-6) with the fertlizer + Clonex (Indole-3-Butyric Acid) those would both lower ph. It takes me a week to 10 days to get roots but I get solid roots after that. it's better practice to pH your water for sure.

Cloning is fun, easy, and cheaper than buying seeds. It can give you a lasting option to perpetually harvest your meds, without the headache of relying on seed companies or breeders for plants. For both stealth & consistency reasons, I find cloning to be an awesome way to keep harvesting!

[starramus]

I have had good luck with my cloning machine at my other home. However after moving to a new houe with alkaline water I am not able to clone shit. Besides the Clonex what do you recommend for the fertilizer.?Will Fox's Grow Big work OK?

[KingKush]

starramus

Yea the FF Grow Big should work just fine. Anything with a little available N. I like fertilizer with some micros and iron already mixed in. (Maxi Gro by GH. Cheap too)
I don't actually use cloneX in my water, just all the product getting washed off the clones when I first dipped. The Clonex washes off right away in the cloner.

And pretty much all fertilizer (that we use) lowers pH so.... simply by using some ferti + clonex should lower your pH to what your plants want. Otherwise a splash of pH down?
Wishing you success!

[9fingerleafs]

yes indefinitely, this is a practice vegetables and fruits producers mastered in order to get as close as possible to mono-crops. like bananas

[Euroaznscotty]

Following because I have a mother I'm growing atm.

[Buzzer777]

I'm on my 7th generation of GDP..Never had a potency issue or any other related issue..grows and smokes perfectly for me (I still have seeds to plant if I wished, but why?)

[KingKush]

Perhaps you have seeds for the best of both worlds. Option "C"
"Getting tired of the same strain"

-Seeds most often end up with different phenotypes. Then you could have the same strain that you could get something a little different too, but still the same overall effects you love.

[BiggieP]

How long should clones veg for since they have age and a head start ? What should the average size of the plants be ? They cut on 8/2 from a very healthy mother (gorilla bomb) All where rooted within 13 days some of where stronger and rooted within a few days. Currently under a 600hps and 600led with both bloom and veg switched on and 1000MH . I have them all on one beam but can individually be adjusted in height. Every other day I rotate the assembly so they get equal distribution of light spectrum. I will probably remove the led soon as I will use it to start the next cycle of fun. Using floragrow/micro/bloom nutrients . This I'm my first serious grow I am guilty of not checking PH. Plenty of space and head room but still working out all kinks for Max effort rewards. ....thanks for all knowledge so far . ..And go.....!

[KingKush]

Veg is 100% growers choice. YOU determine how big you want your plants. Most of us prefer to have a decently large plant in a small amount of time, thus saving on electricity.

By the way, you could get your entire veg cycle done with just ONE of those lights. A thousand watts should cover a 5' x 5' area. Two thousand watts for a 10'x10' room would be plenty.

"Bloom takes double the area and double the light as your veg"
-this is a good rule of thumb to decide how long to spend in Veg. Grow to half capacity and then initiate flower.

[KingKush]

I keep it simple: veg until the plants overcrowd the 1000w MH
And then they go under x2 1000wHPS with lots of elbow room for about 2 weeks. Once the stretch is over and I complete my canopy training, the room is jam packed again. Seems to work out well for me and some other successful growers!

I like 4 or 5 plants per 1000watts. Grow them to a 2' x 2' bush in veg.

[Ell]

instead of thinking weeks in veg think plant height. with your powerfull lights you could veg to 3 foot and still penetrate to bottom after final stretch.personally i veg to 2 feet as that is efficient . there is an article somewhere on GWE about veg times vs. yeild and turn around time.

[starramus]

I believe this is the section you are writing about. https://www.growweedeasy.com/best-he...annabis-plants

[Ell]

thanks

[DrPhoton]

Its an interesting topic this one. The theory that clones degrade in some way through successions is thin. But not at all impossible.

Clones are classified as asexual reproduction which can occur naturally through organisms that intentionally produce identicle organisms of themselves through mitosis. Or through practices such as vegetative propagation which is known as cloning for cannabis.

The thoery behind succesive cloning degradation, is through genetic mutations. Although it has been shown that several generations of mutations can have an effect on genetic variances. It is a very small effect.

I believe the differences people see are more related to phenotype plasticity, where through environmental conditioning, changes the phenotype expressions of a certain plant. Which then carries on this trait through its next asexual offspring. However, this shift does not automatically mean a degradation of said genetics. Infact, it would imply the opposite, however it can of course promote negative phentype expressions that are not valued by a grower. Such as less yield.

There is also the possibility that pathological diseases can cause problems that stay with the plant through successions. This may just as likely be the cause.

One thing seems clear to though, is that successive cloning does not automatically degrade the genetics and if the original or successive genetics are well looked after, is a high possibility it will perform as well as its original mother. There are many people who have cloned the same genetics for decades and some species of plants have been carried over for centuries. Many organisms, do this naturally without third party intervention. Which is a natural process of these organisms. So its hard to believe that this is a genetic aspect, but likely more related to phenotype expression or pathological diseases.