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pH down solution drastically elevates PPM, is it normal?

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    HELP! pH down solution drastically elevates PPM, is it normal?

    Hello, My normal maintenance nutrient mix measures 358 PPM. (Before balancing the pH).

    Nutrient mix:
    Mammoth P 1.25mg
    Humboldts Secret Golden Tree 1.25mg
    Humboldts Secret Base A 3.5mg, B 3.5mg

    Then I added pH down solution into my mix and my PPM shot from 358 to 1,190, it went up 883. Just by adding in the pH down solution.
    I want to add more nutrients to my mix but the pH solution is causing it to be to high.
    If I don't add my pH down solution then the plants won't uptake nutrients, they will sit and burn again.

    So how is it ever possible for me to achieve a PPM lower than 1,190 when my pH balancing solution cranks up my PPM way too high?
    Last edited by MrGreenGenes; 07-28-2018, 11:01 AM.
    Indoor 3 x 3 x 6 Tent, fan & Carbon Filter
    Grow Light: KindLED X40
    Medium: Organic soil in 3 gallon pots
    Humbodlts Secret A,B + Golden Tree, Mammoth P
    Strains: Purple Punch, Cosmic Glue, Girl Time

    #2
    Hi Mr.Gg,
    what is your PH of your base water? And are you add ph down before or after you add nutes to the water? What medium are you growing in?
    Current Grow:
    https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ew-grower-here

    Past threads:
    https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...plant-training

    Comment


    • MrGreenGenes
      MrGreenGenes commented
      Editing a comment
      Base pH is 7.0.
      i add pH down in my nutrient mix after nutrients.
      Soil.

    #3
    Yes that is how ph works. It is a relationship bewteen Ppm and the ph of those minerals. If you want to lower or rise ph you need lots of particles to counter act the water and nutrients ph

    Comment


      #4
      I ask this not to hijack the thread, but if I guess right it may help. If the PH Down is contributing that many PPM's, do those PPM's count less than PPM's from nutrients? There is no N or P or K in the PH down, I don't believe. It seems to me that the PPM's from the PH down could be somewhat ignored if plants seem underfed.
      Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will help me out on this, because I am just fishing.
      completed 7 grows
      what I have learned so far:
      environment maters more than nutrients
      at least a dab of nutrients in every watering
      effective flushing before harvest is critical to quality

      Comment


      • MrGreenGenes
        MrGreenGenes commented
        Editing a comment
        Flockshot thank you for sharing. Very valid question. Campesino Can the PPM's being created from the pH down be ignored?
        883 in my case. In reality, having a PPM of 358 during flower is very low.
        Last edited by MrGreenGenes; 07-28-2018, 03:20 PM.

      #5
      I would notice mine go down where I'm not adding pH down but never up ?? Weird I'm curious to see which direction this go's.

      Comment


        #6
        I think you are fine with a base of 7.0 which is a nuetral ph... My water is 7 out of the well and I don't add any ph down. Is it 7.0 after adding nutes? If so I wouldn't add any ph down.
        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...-she-s-a-beast

        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...1424-shop-grow

        Wise man say."Always someone who know more."

        Comment


        • Chefbjy
          Chefbjy commented
          Editing a comment
          As long as ph is between 6-7 I wouldn't use it. See what your ph is when you double your recipe. Depending on how many gallons you need you could use a solution like I described below. Maybe even triple or quadruple the recipe depending how many gallons you use. Pouring 2qts into another jug and diluting may save you from using ph buffers at all. And some nutes are good for a week or so premixed in water.

        • MrGreenGenes
          MrGreenGenes commented
          Editing a comment
          Chefbjy then how will my pH get lowered? I would think manufactures create these juices on the lower side of the pH scale. I'm going to try this for my next watering. I will not add any pH down and Ill double nutrients in recipe (putting me up to 705 PPM / without pH down being added). Very curious to see the EC and pH readings. Soil runoff pH needs to be around 6.5 to 6.9. If I cant get my pH low enough this will generate many other issues. And as you mentioned. Maybe I only use pH down for the non-nutrient watering days.

        • Chefbjy
          Chefbjy commented
          Editing a comment
          Usually feed charts are very high ppm levels if you follow the recipes. And my nutes drop ph. It would be best to ph the nutrient solution before adding ph down. I would be happy with 6.7 and wouldn't try to lower it. But yes you can help it fluctuate by using it on no feed days.

        #7
        How much ph down do you use?
        Current Grow:
        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ew-grower-here

        Past threads:
        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...plant-training

        Comment


        • MrGreenGenes
          MrGreenGenes commented
          Editing a comment
          I keep adding it to the nutrient mix until it achieves 5.5. Couple cap fulls of GH pH Down.

        #8
        You sure you put ph down and not pH up Mr gg?.just putting it out there because I've done it before.

        Comment


        • MrGreenGenes
          MrGreenGenes commented
          Editing a comment
          I only own pH Down.

        #9
        hi there,

        you kinda start off with what I have as well with my water...
        baseline pH - 7.3 to 7.6 ish ; ppm (NaCL) - 267

        im using the flora series with CalMag extra....

        i've read from the feeding chart Flora has for recirculating DWC systems to add CalMag first before adding their Micro solution....
        not sure if you're using CalMag extra, or if there is a recommendation to add nutrients to water but i'd look for something like that.

        when i add 30ml CalMag and 60ml of FloraMicro to 15L of plain water, i get these readings:
        pH - 7.4 , ppm - 1240 (starting pH - 7.6)

        when all is done, the resting pH of 45L of water is 7.4 with ppm - 840.
        then i add 13.5ml of pH down to it and pH settles at 6.3. ppm at 850.


        how much water are you adding those nutrients to you mentioned at the start?
        Last edited by FlyingDutchPaddy; 07-28-2018, 04:31 PM. Reason: and how much pH down are you adding to the water?
        GreenQube 1.5m x 3.0m x 2.2m tent
        2x CDMH 315W lights
        870m3/hr fan
        8 x 42L DIY DWC buckets, 2 airstones each

        Comment


        • MrGreenGenes
          MrGreenGenes commented
          Editing a comment
          On day 30 of flower. I'm in soil. I always add nutrients directly into my water. I'm not using any additional CalMag. My NPK base nutrients are 5-4-4. You mentioned your PPM dropped 400 by letting it rest. How long of a rest?

        #10
        I haven't used it in months adding nutes usually significantly reduces my ph. Using silica then calmag should be added first. I use gh maxi series bottled recommend feed that lowers it to around 5.5-6. I then add what I mixed to another jug and add more water to a get a diluted solution to my correct ec level by adding any diluted solution to the half empty jug. Maybe have enough to feed the flowers and stuff around the house. But I've used this method getting a ph of 6.5 everytime with a nuetral starting ph. I don't add ph down to my regular waterings and my run off ph is always between 6 and 6.5.
        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...-she-s-a-beast

        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...1424-shop-grow

        Wise man say."Always someone who know more."

        Comment


        • Chefbjy
          Chefbjy commented
          Editing a comment
          As long as it's in between 6-7 run off they all will be available to the plant. I wouldn't worry about lowering it imho.

        • MrGreenGenes
          MrGreenGenes commented
          Editing a comment
          Chefbjy I did it without adding any pH down. I made my Nutrient mix for flower phase (per gallon):

          Mammoth P 1.5mg
          Humboldts Secret Golden Tree 1.5mg
          Humboldts Secret Base A 3.5mg, B 4.5mg
          This tap water mixture is 1,440 PPM, pH 4.5

          I then split this into two half gallons and re-added water back to full 50% diluted. So now I have two full gallons of nutrient mix 720 PPM. Perfect. The pH of this mixture is 4.5.

          After watering, the pH runoff measured 6.9 ( it went up 2.4) and now my soil pH is around 6.9 to 7 and PPM runoff came out a little higher at 860 PPM. Increase of 140.

          Next watering per @ campesino suggestion, nutrient levels will be slightly higher. I'd like to finish off around 900-950 PPM.
          Lets hope I can even get to harvest.

        • Chefbjy
          Chefbjy commented
          Editing a comment
          Very nice...it's a good thing you have nuetral water or it probably wouldn't work. It wasn't 4.9 after dilution was it? It's good to let ph fluctuate a bit between 6-7, and as long as run off is consistent all you have to worry about is ec. Make notes of your mixes and the ph so you eliminate any guess work and it will become natural to you without having to test inflow all the time. Glad it worked for you and good luck 😉.

        #11
        ok, so... I've been reading multiple forums that say DO NOT include pH when calculating your TOTAL PPM. Measure you nutrient recipe mixture before adjusting any pH as this will greatly effect your results.

        Explanation: add all your various nutrients (in the proper order) to your plain water the note measurement. Then measure PPM of your plain water. Add them together and this is your TOTAL PPM.

        My example Nutrient Recipe:
        Tap Water: 45 PPM
        Nutrient Mix: 358
        Total PPM: 403 PPM

        My Goal for week 3 flowering is 800.
        So I need to add 397 more PPM of Nutrients to hit goal.


        Indoor 3 x 3 x 6 Tent, fan & Carbon Filter
        Grow Light: KindLED X40
        Medium: Organic soil in 3 gallon pots
        Humbodlts Secret A,B + Golden Tree, Mammoth P
        Strains: Purple Punch, Cosmic Glue, Girl Time

        Comment


        • FlyingDutchPaddy
          FlyingDutchPaddy commented
          Editing a comment
          MrGreenGenes, dont think it was asked or mentioned somewhere, but can I ask to which standard your ppm meter is calibrated to?

          my ppm pen meter is calibrated to NaCl for example ; 500ppm = 1.0 EC

        • MrGreenGenes
          MrGreenGenes commented
          Editing a comment
          My TDS calibration solution is Nacl 1000 made by HM.

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