Setup Advice - LED, HPS, or Both?

[Baphomatt]

Greetings all!

I have a 4.5' x 3.5' x 7.5' space. Previously using a 400w HPS (with a horribly cheap reflector I'm replacing - lesson learned!), a 4" inline with scrubber (also replacing - 'nuther lesson learned!), and soil medium. I'm replacing the reflector/hood, upgrading to a 6", 440cfm inline fan, and switching to hydroponics.

I'm considering different light options. Either:

A. 600 or 700w (equivalent) Viparspectra LED.

B. x 2 Viparspectra 300w (equivalent) LEDs.

C. Option B plus running my HPS at 50% during flowering.

Or should I stick with the 400w HPS I already have (with upgraded hood & vent for heat control?

I will probably never have more than 4 plants going at any given time - 2 being more likely. I grow for myself and only myself, so while everyone likes to max their yield potential, that isn't my biggest concern. From what I've garnered, LEDs may increase trichomes, appearance, and possibly color/smell/flavor, but is it a difference that is worth the effort?

Any and all suggestions re: these setup options, products mentioned (if not violating site policy), or a completely different recommendation is welcomed and I thank you in advance!

Happy growing,

Baphomatt

[Chefbjy]

With 2 plants you won't need much light but if you have the option to run both leds and hids you'll get the best of both worlds. The 400w hps would be my go to and if I could add another light in my tent I would. Air cooled hoods tend to be a little big limiting space to hang other light fixtures. If aesthetics is what you're after leds are great and produce good yields with the right amount of light. I've been looking into doing both in my shop though I'll be growing quite a few more then 2.

[Baphomatt]

The "best of both worlds" angle is kind of my thinking as well. And using the two smaller LEDs with the option to use the HPS to supplement gives me more versatility, I suppose. I'm very afraid of heat problems, been there, done that, didn't like it! Thanks so much for your input!

[Chefbjy]

Np a big exhaust might help with heat if you can keep the room cooled and vent outside. Good luck

[Baphomatt]

Definitely the plan. My existing is a 4" 180cfm - just not enough for the space. Since I have it I'll use it as an auxiliary, but I'm switching to a 6" 440 cfm as my primary. Thanks again! (Loving this forum! Very hard to find knowledgable people to have serious conversations with in my day-to-day!)

[IslandColas]

All the changes you’ve listed will greatly improve your grow and will also greatly improve your quality (IF GROWN PROPERLY). LEDs are awesome due to the spectrum they provide but you have to be very careful. Not only are they very powerful and can burn plants if improperly operated but when navigating the market there’s a lot of misleading information and advertising. LEDs have gone down in price significantly since their introduction to Cannabis Cultivation but be weary of the 300 dollar or less models. Most of them will advertise max output possible (like 1500w) but only run at quarter that strength. If you find a good one they’re awesome. They’ll definitely add to your bud quality. I’m curious to see if you get better results mixing led with hps but I would personally just up my bulb to a 600w hps. In my opinion it’ll be less work constantly adjusting lights, and if you’re doing hydro you’re going to have supreme control over your girls. With proper air control, and water temps you’re going to produce high grade Cannabis either way led/hps.

[Baphomatt]

Thank you, IslandColas! I feel the same way in regards to LEDs. The technology has improved and the prices have come down significantly. But they're still pricey and that is a consideration! Like you, I don't generally give LED units that are < $300 a second look. But that particular brand seems to be getting very good results and are more than competitive when it comes to price! I actually first heard of them here in a GWE article on LEDs.

[IslandColas]

They sound great! Didn’t do any research on the particular brand. By the way, what type hydro have you transferred to?

[Baphomatt]

I haven't yet. Will be ordering all my new gear in the next couple days. I was looking at this:

https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Hydroponic-Bubbler-PowerGrow-Systems/dp/B00DVQQI60/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1528497141&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=hydroponic+bubbleponics&dpPl=1&dpID=41bsUoS1xdL&ref=plSrch

Any suggestions are more than welcomed!

[IslandColas]

If you’d like help picking a good hydro system for your needs I can help you weed through the good and bad.

Hydro if done properly is super low maintenance and will scientifically produce a higher quality product.

I looked at the system you were looking at on amazon and my honest opinion is do not buy it. The 5 gallon DWC system is only viable if you want to do a single plant or if all the buckets are connected to a main reservoir. But even then maintenance is high. If the buckets aren’t connected and you have 5 plants you’ll be doing 5 ph tests and 5 EC readings EVERY DAY. Not to mention every week you’ll be forced to clean and change 5 separate reservoirs. Even when the buckets are connected you’re still required to clean 5 separate buckets but you’ll be doing only a single reservoir change.

It depends on how much time you have every day to spend monitoring your plants. This is beside your daily care and the “fun” stuff we like about growing.

I’d suggest Ebb and Flow or a coco drip system (Which isn’t full hydro really and can be messy). Ebb and Flow is my personal favorite. It’s easy maintenance and simple to clean. In addition to being the best way to get oxygen to your root zone other than an aeroponics system. Plants grow like crazy in these systems and there really not complicated to operate. They are a little pricey but if you have the extra cash it’s worth it.

If you’re room temperature is over 72 degrees Fahrenheit, you’ll need a water chiller to keep your reservoir temps in the correct zone. Which is almost impossible in many separate 5 gallons (Unless they’re connected). If you’re growing in a tent you’re most likely going to need a water chiller unless you have superb air flow and ways to keep your lights cool. With Ebb and Flow you have a single main reservoir. Large bodies of water have much more stable temperatures as well as have the possibility, because the reservoir is separate from your roots, of using ice to bring temps down without a water chiller (this can be just as labor intensive as testing individual buckets but is an affective way to bring reservoir temps down in an emergency, ie water chiller failure.)

Imo Hydro is most definitely the way to go but you have to know what you’re getting into. Whatever system you choose just make sure you’ve done you’re research and have thought about all the maintenance you will need to preform on the system.

Hope you the best! Good luck and much Aloha!

[Baphomatt]

IslandColas
That's what I'm on about! Folks here know whereof they speak and are not just willing, but actually eager to help each other. Soooo grateful I found this place.

I would absolutely love any suggestions for a hydro system! I wasn't sure about the ebb & flow but everything you're saying makes perfect sense. With this type of system you essentially maintain it via the main reservoir, correct? Have you encountered a situation where different plants needed different adjustments in nutes? If so, how do you handle it?

Thanks so much, sincerely!

[IslandColas]

So with Ebb and Flow you have one main reservoir. Reservoir size is Dependent on size of your flood table. For reference we will use my flower tent set up.

I have a 3x3 flood table with a 40 gallon reservoir. The nutrient solution will spend 90% of its time sitting below your table in your reservoir. While sitting in the reservoir the water is constantly agitated and oxygenated by multiple air stones. The reservoir should be light proof to keep algae growth from occurring. That solution is pumped up to the table above and floods the root zone of your plants once every 4 hours or so (Everyones feed schedule is different because of environmental differences as well as media variations). The goal is to allow your media to nearly completely dry before flooding/feeding again. This provides maximum oxygenation to your roots in addition to fresh new oxygen being drawn to your root source every time your table drains. How long you flood your table depends on type of media and also capability of your timer. Most basic timers have 30 minute intervals which is okay for your plants. Optimal flood time is ten minutes after maximum water level is reached, but 30 minutes is completely okay and will neither hinder nor hurt your girls. A good guide though, never flood longer than an hour.

To answer your question about nutrients and different reservoirs. Yes, you will (if you plan to run a perpetual grow or at least have any plants vegging while in flower) need two reservoirs. This is only due to the fact that you feed a flowering plant a total different nutrient ratio than a veg plant. BUT you can share reservoirs!!! Something my mentor and very close friend taught me was that if you want multiple tables for one phase you can daisy chain them in essence to the same reservoir. For example, he has 2 6’x4’ flood tables to veg all his mothers, but there butted up against each other with a 100gal reservoir under the joint. The reservoir has two separate pumps in it that are set on different flood schedules. This allows him to use that same 100 gal reservoir to operate multiple tables. He could link up to 4 6x4 tables to it and still only need a single reservoir.

Im currently setting up my own perpetual grow. I plan to do the same thing but keep my mothers vegging on one table, while vegging their clones in the second table. Then the clones will transfer to their flower tables where they’ll finish life. I’ll only require 2 reservoirs and when I’m at full production plan to have up to 6 tables. That’s a hell of a lot of plants with almost no maintenance! 2 reservoirs to stay on top of and 40 plants is much better than 5 plants and 5 reservoirs to monitor in my opinion.

Disclamer! The more plants you’re feeding off a single reservoir the more solution that will be drank. More frequent top offs will be required.

honestly brotha, whether you are doing 40 or 4 you’ll be a happier Cannabis cultivator when you’re working less. Now if you SERIOUSLY only want to do 2 plants at a time. Which unless you train and grow them out quite a bit you won’t yield much from. DWC, even separate bucket DWC will be fine. There’s not going to be that much extra work over a flood and drain. But if you want 4 or more plants at once, buy a tiny table and reservoir for $300 and start with a great base. I understand money can be tight. I’m in the same boat, and though I’m not willing to gamble my flowering girls I have gotten my perpetual grow off the ground with homemade equipment. I’ll attach a bunch of photos of my homemade veg table. Btw your veg table can be half the size of your flower table. Plants almost always double (if not triple) in size during flower.

I plan for my next two harvests to keep a single if not 2 mothers in DWC 5 gallons, clone off them and put those in my 1.5x3 veg table, veg them out till transplant and transfer to 3x3 flower table. Eventually DWC and all its extra work will be eliminated from my grow.

[IslandColas]

Sorry I got ahead of myself and hit post before I finished answering your questions. First, yes you maintain everything via your main reservoir. Second, that is a bit of a downside when it comes to growing a really diverse set of plants. You cannot tailor your nutrient solution to each different strain. Ways to ease this include, only growing one strain at a time, growing similar strains that require similar care and feeding, if your stalk is super diverse you’ll just have to play around and find that perfect median that they all thrive to a similar degree.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Hello IslandColas, Man, I can tell you know your business, great information.
There used to be an old head on here, a good while back, that grows like you do, ebb-,flow, or flood-drain, that knew his sh-t ,too.
His name was GanjaGed, a super nice guy, too, and smart as all get out.
Alltatup an myself ,used to stay in close touch with him, OJH, did too.
But he kept getting sicker and sicker, I forget what it was. But something like dementia or old timers disease, he couldn't remember anything. , But you and GanjaGed would have been good friends.
He grew some beautiful plants too, and kept trying to get me to try flood-drain,
But I told him that was way over my head, in other words ,you gotta think alot, about what your doing. And that ain't me, maybe one time long ago, but not now.
I done got so old ,I'm sticking with the easy, foolproof way, good soil and water.
Anyway, you would have liked GanjaGed.
Ps, Do live on an island? Like Hawaii?

[IslandColas]

D.A.A.S.69 thank you so much! I really appreciate the props I’ve spent a lot of time working hydro systems as well as hydroponic Farming. But This is my first REAL Cannabis Cultivation using hydroponic mediums. These plants are unlike any other, much more fun than hydro lettuce 😂 to answer your question, I am from the Hawaiian Islands. I reside on Maui. Growing that true Maui Wowie shit

[Baphomatt]

IslandColas
Wow. You prompted me to do more research which expanded my knowledge. That's always a good thing and I thank you! I'm still weighing my options for which hydro setup best meets my particular needs and resources. (Also giving coco coir some consideration.) But I'm convinced more than ever that I need to get my feet wet with hydroponics (sorry, bad puns are always intended with me). I've done well with soil but I really think I need to give hydro a try. Thanks so much to everyone for your input! It's always welcomed and always appreciated!

[IslandColas]

You’re going to do great! We berieive!!!!

I’m secretly really hoping I can convince you to go full hydro. You will truly be amazed by growth and yield as well as learn so much more about plant processes and what they truly require to grow. If you do go coco, get in contact with Campesino he is the coco master in the forums. He really knows his shit.

[IslandColas]

IslandColas
Wow. You prompted me to do more research which expanded my knowledge. That's always a good thing and I thank you! I'm still weighing my options for which hydro setup best meets my particular needs and resources. (Also giving coco coir some consideration.) But I'm convinced more than ever that I need to get my feet wet with hydroponics (sorry, bad puns are always intended with me). I've done well with soil but I really think I need to give hydro a try. Thanks so much to everyone for your input! It's always welcomed and always appreciated!

Im a pretty punny motherf&cker, but that was good!😂

[Baphomatt]

Oh it won't take much to convince me! I'm only really into a few things, but when I'm into it I'm *really* into it, hyper focus, and will devote a ridiculous amount of resources to it. And I'm really into this. Cannabis may not be addictive, but growing it sure as hell is! At this point it does boil down to available resources: space, time, and as always - $. Everyone here has been so helpful, I'm really enjoying the forum. And Nebula & Sirius have been a godsend.