COCO COIR Plant sick possible calcium deficiency

[Ranenblud]

Help my plant is sick. This is my first grow ever. It's in Coco with roughly 30% perlite. It started with brown spots on those bottom leaves, then the next day they were completely dried out. I was using a 200 watt LED, but I thought that maybe they were light burned, so I switched to a 65 watt LED above the plant. I have 2 six inch fans for intake and exhaust, and an 11 inch fan that points right at the plant. New brown spots have started on the other leaves. I've been watering every other day, and feeding every other watering with gh Flora trio and a cal mag supplement. The Cal mag supplement is a couple years old and was given to me by my mother in law, she used to use if for her tomatoes. I'm not sure, but I'm wondering if these go bad over time. The pictures I've seen of a calcium deficiency look similar, but not as bad. In fact, to a first timer, quite a few things look the same. Is there any help for this little guy?

[strainsgrow]

Hey Ranen!

I wouldnt add nutrients yet as the seed still should provide what she needs at that age. That looks like borom deficiency to me. What is your water ph when watering? It should be 5.8 6.5 for that little guy. If your ph is wrong the plant wont be able to adsorb calcium from the soil. I wouldnt use that old calmag. Get some liquid seeweed and feed her that for a few feedings and go from there.

A CFL light is more than enough light for that seedling to avoid light burn.

Just my 2 cents. Good Luck!

[Chefbjy]

You say you have the fan pointed directly at the plant? Seedlings that size don't really need fans on them but point it over the top of the plant not directly on it or it may cause wind burn. If the calmag was stored properly it should be fine. Gh says their nutes last indefinitely if stored properly. It's pretty young to have a deficiency but your coco looks dry and you shouldn't let it dry up. Campesino has a great guide to watering in coco. The smaller light is a good choice it doesn't need much to get going. Also what are the environment conditions? Temp and humidity? Ph?

[Campesino]

Ranenblud That is Ca deficiency almost certainly.

Did you buffer your Coco with Cal Mag prior to use? If not... you may actually want to try and get that little girl out of that Coco and into some that is buffered. Unbuffered Coco is loaded with K cations. When in the presence of Cal, Cation exchange will occur and the Coco will take the Ca and release the K. Unbuffered Coco will strip almost all the Ca out of your nutrient solution, meaning practically none is available to the plant.
I appreciate Chefbjy 's recommendation and think you may want to read my guide. Link is in my signature.
Cheers

[Canuck147]

Good start - get that fan off your plant - looks dried out from it. Don't feed it so many nutes when it is that size. Check manufacturers stats on how close to put your light.

[Redwasp]

The top leaves look ok to me. But yeah she is still a baby. I use cfl until much larger than that.

[Ranenblud]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. My light said to keep it 24 inches from the plants as seedlings. So that's where I had it. But I I was thinking it still may have been a problem. I just removed the fan from the plants in case that was causing a problem. I've been following the feeding schedule on this sight for the Flora trio with regular water every other time. Do cal mag supplements go bad with age? I ordered the gh calimagic from Amazon and it will be here tomorrow, just in case. There are actually 2 seedlings in my setup, and the same thing is happening to the other one, just not as bad. The strain is big bud, from Amsterdam marijuana seeds. Are these seedlings likely to recover, or with them being so young is this a death sentence.

[Campesino]

I advise strongly against the interval flush with "plain" water, but if you are going to do it there should at least be Cal/Mag in the water and it should be pH adjusted.

The plants are not the problem, it is the unbufferred Coco (Especially if you have been adding plain water without Cal Mag). I would transplant them into new buffered coco. To buffer coco, simply soak it overnight in a bucket of Cal Mag water and then drain - you can do that twice for better buffering. The plant will be fine as soon as it is in a media that will allow it to get Ca.

[Ranenblud]

You guys are awesome. Thanks so much for all the replies. No the Coco was not buffered with cal mag beforehand. I had actually never heard of that before last night. But, I did come across your guide last night researching this problem in the forums, before I was allowed to ask questions. I just wasn't completely sure that's what the problem was. And I should have been more clear, when I said "plain water" I meant that it didn't have the Flora trio added to it, but I did add the cal mag, as that's what the Coco guide on this sight says to do. For pH, I don't have a ph meter to get an exact result, but I do have the gh pH up down test kit. So, ive been trying to make sure that it reads a yellowish color, which according to the chart on the back is in the 6.0 to 6.5 range. I do have a small question about that though. If I have a gallon of water with calmag and nutes made up, do I need to test the pH again before the next time I use it, or will it maintain the same pH? And will transplanting be difficult since they're already in larger pots? I am really nervous about moving them and either damaging the roots, or hurting the plants, since they are so small. They are in fabric pots. I haven't been watering to runoff because I didn't want to over water. Would it fix the problem if I watered to runoff a couple days in a row, with a small dose of nutrients and calmag, if after I clean up the runoff, I point the fan directly at the pots to help them dry, or would that still drown the roots? Sorry, if that is a crazy question, but I've heard it's hard to overwater in coco with fabric pots, and perlite. And if transplanting to buffered coco is the only way, how much of an area around the plant, and how deep, should I dig out around it to make sure I don't cause any further damage? I know when I've seen them pulled out of solo cups, it seems like there's roots everywhere. And again, I want to thank everyone for the help. I'll definitely do the same once I learn myself.

[Chefbjy]

Definitely ph water AFTER adding nutes. Apply ph up or down as needed.

[Campesino]

pH actually does drift a bit, but you don't need to be overly precise with it either. I generally do pH test right before applying... pH seems to continue to move in whatever direction it was adjusted. If you add down, 24 hours later it will be even lower. If you add up 24 hours later it will be higher.

You will not over-water that isn't really a threat. Coco/Perlite always maintains sufficient oxygen unless it is literally flooded. I understand that you are following the GWE guide of alternating flush. I did that too when I started. I have come to understand that it is not only not needed, but actually not a good idea. Far better to apply consistent inflow and track run-off EC as I describe. However, regardless of that, you do not have to worry about over-watering and should increase the amount you are applying considerably if you want good growth.

You absolutely need to water to 10-20% run-off. Stop worrying about over-watering and start worrying about the salts that are building up in your coco!

How much experience do you have transplanting? What size containers are they? How long have they been there?
Safe route: dig up a lot and transfer it all - don't get close to roots
Expert route: dig up less and be careful with roots. Try to transfer less unbuffered coco
If you really want to avoid transplanting there are inferior options I can describe... they involve lower nutes, higher calmag, and more frequent watering.

[Ranenblud]

This is my very first grow ever. I have no experience with transplanting at all, hence the fear. They are in 3 gallon smart pots now. They're just over 2 weeks old, and they've been there the whole time. I was nervous about transplanting to begin with, that's why I started in these pots. Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it

[Campesino]

In response to earlier point: Yes, it is practically impossible to over-water Coco/perlite and to solve the Cal Mag issue you'll need to increase watering.
OK, if you want to avoid transplanting...My Suggestions:
1. Are you going to be able to auto-water during flowering? In 3 gallon pots it will be best to water 3-4x per day during flower as I discuss in guide.
2. You'll need to be able to measure EC.
3. You should increase Cal/Mag to 7.5ml/Gal of ALL INFLOW
4. You will need to reduce the amounts of base nutes you add so that inflow EC is not too high
5. Water with 20-30% run-off 2x per day now in Veg (SAME NUTRIENT SOLUTION EVERY SINGLE TIME)
6. Track run-off EC of each plant and make sure that EC is not getting too high.
7. After 2 weeks of managing this, the Coco should be pretty much buffered and you can reduce Cal Mag (to 5ml/gal) and increase Base nutes

[Redwasp]

Wow camp. Nice answer. I prefer soil just because that's what i know. If i ever decide to change i know who to ask.

[Campesino]

Thanks Redwasp
There is a lot to be said for soil! But if you come over to Coco, I'll certainly be happy to help!

[Ranenblud]

I've got the coco buffering now. I'm gonna transplant tonight after work. I won't be able to auto water, but can have my wife water for me while I'm working, because one of us is always home. I'll transplant tonight, and let you know how she's looking.

[Campesino]

This is the best. I wish you success!
Here for any Qs you may have.

[Ranenblud]

Thanks again. The transplant is done. It was actually a lot easier than I was expecting. The coco didn't stick to the roots as much as I was expecting from transplanting other house plants grown in soil. The last question I have for now is should I stay with the cfls, or go back to the led light.

[Chefbjy]

Stay with the cfls for now. Give it a couple weeks. I'd say after that it should be recovered and big enough to go under good lighting. Good luck.

[Campesino]

Hope she recovers quickly from both. Getting her into buffered coco means she'll be able to start getting Ca and should look better on new growth. Be sure to give Cal Mag, but normal dose is fine.

Agreed Chefbjy I keep them under the CFLs until they literally out grow them

[Ranenblud]

Thanks again

[Ranenblud]

So she's transplanted into the buffered Coco, and look at this explosion over night! I know she don't look great, but her growth had been stunted for days. So, I'd say this is a great sign of the recovery to come. Thanks again for the help

[Chefbjy]

Nice the yellow may never turn green again but all your new growth should be green. Just follow the guides and ask questions when needed. Routing for your success.

[Campesino]

The plant is thinking "Oh my god this is so much nicer!"

[Campesino]

Really happy she's doing well and look forward to updates

[Ranenblud]

I'm just shocked at how soon I'm seeing results. I thought the transplant alone would take a toll. So this was pretty exciting to see.

[Campesino]

I am so happy!
It is scary to give advice like that... I knew it would be best, but it could have gone badly - And I would have hated to be responsible for that!
Excellent work with the transplant! Now that she can get Ca she's a happy little plant!