New Grow with Dinafem auots & automatic watering system

[Cronk]

Hey, all. I'll be starting a second grow in a couple of weeks but I wanted to post my top feed system first, maybe get some suggestions.

Ill be growing 3 Dinafem Industrial Plant CBD auto and a Dinafem Critical + 2.0 Auto

for the watering system I have a 20 gallon reservoir, a circulation pump, another pump on a timer for distribution to a Floraflex bubbler sending 8 lines, 2 each pot with Floraflex Floracaps 3 gallon fabric pots with coco / perlite that drain to an easily accessible pan in the front of the tent.

I plan to treat this a hydro and water at least twice a day. I guess I'll be watering by hand at first but as soon as I can I'll turn this rig on. I'll be using Mega Crop for nutes with extra cal mag.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Nice Cronk, good luck with these, especially the watering the seedlings part, lol, your gonna do fine.
PS- you are going to love the autoflower, I promise.

[Cronk]

yep, I'll take it easy on the little ones

[Dutchman1]

Ill watch.

[Dutchman1]

Really looking forward to what you do with this grow.
I tried to grow Industrial plant outside my second grow a while back.. The first seedling languished and died after a couple of weeks. The next one took off but then never grew above 7-8 inches all summer. It was right next to the plant in the picture and was watered and fed and taken care of the same way. I think I read after that they recommend growing them inside so maybe that had alot to do with it. By the way.....that picture was taken after I had moved it indoors because it hadnt flowered yet, it was getting to cold out and I was trying to force the issue.

[Cronk]

just got my light back after a storm blew the transformer. back on track

4 seeds germinated. 3 Dinafem Industrial CBD Auto, 1 Dinafem Critical + 2.0 Auto
Coco 1 gallon pots for seedlings.
all germinated within 2 days, planted in pots of coco/perlite. I'll feed with plain water for a few days

Mega Crop nutes @ 2 G per gallon for seedlings. I'm following Mega Crop's feed schedule

Water- 65 PPM
7.0 Ph
---
feed- 300 ppm
6.7 Ph

The plan here is to water by hand until I replant into 3 gallon fabric pots and run auto feed top drip pumped from a 20 gallon reservoir (16 gallons water). My last (1st) grow turned out pretty well for a first, This time I will treat the coco like hydro and top feed at least twice per day. Thanks Campesino for your work on your coco posts.

Last time I treated the coco like soil and let the pots get dry. I think I lost a lot of weight because of this. We'll see how this does.

I may manifold or just do a top at the 4th and keep the nodes below for an X pattern. Maybe 5th and keep 2,3 & 4

[Campesino]

FWIW, I like the 1 gal to 3 gal transplant plan. it is easier to water smaller containers more frequently.

[Campesino]

I just keep looking at that watering system and am sad I can't see more! Look forward to seeing it in action! you are set up fantastically!
I will have my much lower tech system going on Friday... At least I will make a solid effort to... Kind of hard to install a system in a jungle when my access time is limited by 12/12 and I can't work in there with the LEDs on. Plan to go to 3x as soon as I trust it...
I can't figure out if the feeling I have looking at your system is excitement for you or jealousy!

[Cronk]

thanks for the words, to be honest, it;s pretty low tech. Two fish tank pumps, hose distribution and the drip caps, they make it look fancy ($12 each). about 125 total.

I'm pretty nervous about turning it on and I don't expect it to be smooth at first. The toughest thing is keeping the res of Mega Crop in proper Ph. apparently this is problematic for some, also late flower with the nutes giving some problems.

[Cronk]

Quick update, finally.

I germinated 4 seeds and have 4 plants. One is obviously bigger than the others so I may have confused who they are.

Germinated in paper towels under a dome on top of a heating pad. happy with that.

I started out watering 2x per day after they sprouted with about 1/8 cup each in these small pots. just around the perimeter not directly on the stem. I don't know if they're 1/2 or 1 gallon pots. Starter pots.
did that for about a week, then increased the nutes from 1gram per gallon to 2 + cal mag. Now I'm at 1 cup each @ 2 gram per gallon plus cal-mag and they're taking it all up. No drooping, fast growth. better than my fist grow.

While doing this I've been working on getting my timing and drip amounts right for the auto drip system. I've been running water + cal-mag into the drip 3x per day for 30 seconds for a week now. Started adding enzymes today. I do this for two reasons, one because I read Campesino's write up about cal mag & coco and two, I wanted to get the system working well because I have to go out of town right after the planned transplant.

The drip system is running well and has been fairly easy to set up. I'm going to up watering after I transplant to 4x per day and keep the amount fairly low, about 20 seconds for my flow should be good. I only want to see a small amount of runoff. I plan on keeping nutes within a reasonable ppm to avoid excessive buildup. The plants drain into a lower pan via tubes and that gets pumped away by a cheap sump style pump set on a timer, 2x per day. so far so good. I'm sure I'll have to alter than once there's a root system sucking up the water.

one thing I notice about plain coco is that water passes though pretty quickly as compared with peat and coco. This tells me the coco is taking what it needs and letting the rest go, filling voids so to speak and leaving plenty or air in the medium, makes a lot of sense why this is considered hydro. I think the over-watering risk is slim.

That's it for now. grow those roots and transplant next

[Campesino]

It all sounds and looks great!
With such frequent fertigation, I really don't think you are going to have problems with EC/PPM as long as you keep inflow reasonable. I am 3x daily now and numbers out are almost the same as in. I still suggest watching outflow to ensure... That is the most critical number to track per plant.
You are right, there is always enough O2 and the risks of overwatering really are in your past. During the first week or so there is a chance, but your girls are off and running and no looking back! I enthusiastically support your plan for 4x daily! Consider timing... I think 2/3 ratio is prob best (2 light hours = 3 dark hours when spacing fertigations)

[Chefbjy]

Nice set up. Makes me want to try coco in my shop 😉.

[Cronk]

DAY 18

topped the 5th nodes and transplanted into 3 gallon fabric pots.
Mixed up 14 gallons of nutes in res. and ph'd

Mega Crop 4 gram per gallon..nothing else at this point.

water ppm 78
res ppm 588
ph 6.3

as I said last post I'd been watering the 3 gallon coco pots with cal mag solution since I had sprouts, two weeks or so. This was so that the coco would start giving up cal-mag to the plants when I transplanted. now I'll hold off on extra cal-mag in the res as Mega Crop claims to have enough

watering 4 x per day for 25 seconds. My pump is 290 gal per hour so I figure this calculation, loosely:

290 gal per hour = 4.83 gallon per minute / 4 hose groups, 1 per plant = 1.2 gallon per plant per minute

1.2 gallons = 4.8 quarts per minute = 2.5 ounces per second

I'm watering 25 seconds each time. about 62.5 ounces, about a 1/2 gallon. I don't really think this calculation is very accurate because I doubt the pump is precise. I guess I should have measured it.

I get about a couple of cups each plant runoff from that and it gets pumped out 2x per day. Pretty slick so far. The coco does not feel wet. it feels moist and cool which I think is perfect. color is great, growth fast. The roots were already begging to get out of the starter pots

we'll see what happens next

[Campesino]

The pH has been much MORE STABLE with the new additions. It had been climbing significantly before. I was adding 5.7 and it was always climbing to 6.3. On this tank I filled with 5.7 and it only climbed to 5.9. PPM/EC more stable too!
Both b/c less/no bacteria!

[Cronk]

got both things. smells nice, although it didn't smell bad yet. my hydro guy says to wash the res every time it gets empty. I'm sure that's right but difficult for my situation. I guess I'll buy a second trash can and swap them out. do you wash your pumps and lines and all?

[Campesino]

Yes, My guy said I could top off once, but should empty and clean with H2O2 otherwise. So if I fill to 10 gal that gets me 3+ days and if I top off then I can empty and clean about every week or maybe 6 days.
Yes, I soak the pump and lines in bucket with H2O2 diluted with water when I clean/change res.

[Cronk]

Day 27.

4 grams Mega Crop per gallon
1mg per gallon Cal Mag +

ppm no cal mag 567
ppm w/ xtra cal mag 677
ph in 6.1
ph out 6.0

Added about 1mg cal mag/gal to mix, boosting what's available in Mega Crop. Leaves are looking odd, clawing on a few, curling on the sides a small amount and looking off color. not yellow but not deep green and smooth. Growth is fast, though so I need to go check the symptoms and report back.

I washed my res and refilled. there was some slime on the bottom but probably because this is the fist time I'd cleaned it and only started H2Os and SM-90 a week ago. I hope that stuff keeps it clean from now on. Cleaning the res every week is going to be a pain. I wonder how all the growers on youtube with massive reservoirs do it. they seem to just keep filling it

I see pistils so I'm guessing flowering has started and I'll see a continued fast growth. I see some flowers just starting on one. Defoliated lightly on all plants.

The light may have been too close for the young plants, even though they look like they're 5 weeks old. Backing off to about 20" or more

[Campesino]

Plants are looking good. I'm not seeing the issues you report, but can't zoom in on pics much.

H2O2 and SM-90 have made my tank so much nicer. I really felt the last clean out that I did was unnecessary. So if you have to go to less frequent clean outs, I don't think it will be a problem when running H2O2 and SM-90. Play it by nose

pH and EC are much more stable in the res too... I almost don't worry about them anymore

My grow is becoming too simple and I am getting bored with the lack of work

[Cronk]

it's the plant foreground right. It's very subtle and hard to see in photos. I'm sure it;s not a big deal right now. Maybe the res clean will take care of it. Also, the Cool Bloom and extra cal-mag may help. I'm just going to keep an eye on it. I;m pretty sure the clawed leaves on the two upper plants were from wind burn because after moving the fan 2 days ago it's not getting worse and is less noticeable.

Thanks man

[Cronk]

for me I'm happy that it's a fairly hands off system, time is limited these days. I really like the autos too so far. I do think they;re going to be sort of small , though compared to my last grow. It's a good thing

[Cronk]

Plants are in flower, tiny buds everywhere and responding well to continued defoliation or trimming & LST.

BUT, I;m battling the slime in the reservoir. My res is 80 degrees F and that white slime is building up on my pumps and hoses. nasty stuff. Luckily no signs of root rot or the like so I guess I'll be bleaching everything and starting over again.

What is a cheap way to cool a res?

EDIT:
sadly I think I'm going back to hand watering. I've been researching this topic off and on and everything seems to point to res temp. Since I would need to buy a cooler appliance that I don;t want to spend for at this point, the effort battling the slime for the next 8 weeks makes me think hand watering a few times per day is better for this grow. Until I can figure out a cooler.

EDIT 2:
I wonder if the higher temps in general in the tent will have effect on mold on the outsides of the fabric pots. I think the constant wetness may be causing some white surface mold near the bottom of them. It's between 78 and 89 in there. I had hoped my room would be just cool enough to keep tops 85 till the end of the grow but I don't know now. I think I need to let it dry out a bit and do more research.

Abandon ship, get in the dingy and head for the island, reload the guns and sneak back to the ship in the darkness to take it back.

[Campesino]

Awesome input Obi-Wan
I think flat runs in supply lines is great observation. I’m happy I tagged you here. I learned a couple things too. You are winning me over with arguments of warmer res.
Cronk I understand the decision but hope you are able to figure it out and put the auto system back to work. Rooting for you either way.

[Cronk]

Thanks Obi-Wan for that info. I'll have to consider all that and figure out how I can accommodate those needs. I have fairly limited config options here with placement of the tent and res, moving them around causes problems for other things going on the the space. I was thinking of moving the res to a cooler location and running longer, vertical but I guess the pump won't run water straight up for 12 feet, if it would the xcess would drain back into the res. It's much cooler below on the concrete floor. Nice hidden location

As for DO, I wonder what kind of air pump would give me that. I have an aquarium pump for 40 gallons and a 4" round air stone. Not enough? I'll look around for more air options. I hadn't thought the recirc pump would raise the temp that much, good call. I also have a little excess water.line under the plants. I could make those more direct, cut out the excess

Maybe a smaller res and a splitter for multiple stones. Maybe a smaller res, that way I could lift it up so the lines drain. ...just refill every few days. I may mix up a 5 gallon bucket and see how long it can go without slime with what air I have

I appreciate your input

[Obi-Wan]

Aquarium pumps are rated differently due to the fish consuming lower levels of oxygen. I would look into a hydroponic air pump with 4 outlets rated at around 200-250 GPH, more is better but that should be good for a 20 gallon res and I would pair it with 4 air stones. After hearing about your air pump I really think an upgrade would make a huge difference. I assume your alternate location for the res is a basement, if your objective is to keep it cooler I don’t see why it couldn’t work and the vertical drop would clear your lines of any standing water.

[Cronk]

It's done. Auto feed system taken out of service. Everything soaked in bleach and run through lines. That shit was nasty.

back to tried and true hand watering via GWE tutorials. I'll figure it out for next time, perhaps the winter grow as temps are easily below 70F in the grow space

EDIT:
I think I can keep the res in a cooler location and run longer lines. I reckon the lines will crap up.......

[Cronk]

The reservoir shat the bed. 80F temps just allows blooms of slime bacteria in a few days. No point in fighting it with chemicals every day so I took it out, cleaned it and went back to hand watering. I have a fix I'm working on but for a later date. It was great up to this point. Fast growth, no sign of overwatering, really rapid development. I really think this is the way to go if temps can be controlled

So, 2x per day hand water Mega, Cal Mag+, Liquid Cool Bloom, same as last time

continued light defoliation and LST. One plant has buds started everywhere. I have about 8 colas on each plant from topping and LST and I think if I train them right they'll be just as good as the manifolds I did last grow. Super fast growth with these autos, bigger than I expected from reading about the strains.

I'll Lollipop in a week or so depending on progress

[Campesino]

Plants look great, no worse for the slime.
I think rapid growth and large size is result of 4x, but they’ll certainly do alright at 2x. Not sure about you though. 2x hand watering is tedious. Solve DO and line draining and I think you could be back in business.
In any event you are doing great with the plants

[Cronk]

thanks, Camp. It's big fun no matter what happens.

[Cronk]

Day 35 from seed

Hand watering 2x per day 1.5 gallons between 4 plants
Mega Crop 4.5 grams per gallon
CalMagic 1 ml per gallon
Kool Bloom liquid 1 ml per gallon

ppm around 1000
ph usually 5.9 to 6.2

runoff is the same as whats going in

One Industrial Plant CBD is flowering strongly. Buds are forming everywhere on all 8 colas. No flowers on the other 3 plants. Plenty of pistils on the other Industrials but nothing on the Critical 2 +. I'm imaging they are all on their own schedule but can't help wondering if it's something I'm doing

I've taken the wires off of the branches as they are all very thick and rigid now, I keep taking leaves wherever I see them blocking sun from bud sights. They all seem healthy. Not much to say

I guess I'm close to half way through. Just need to keep them cooler than 85 F on the hotter days. They've gone as high as 90 F in the tent and don't seem to have suffered. I'll definitely change my growing between the months of Sept - May from now on.

I'm going to put the runoff on my garden

[Cronk]

all 3 Industrial Plants are in full flower. Critical 2+ shows no signs of it. I'm beginning to wonder if it's a photo. super short, only green leaves, no pistils yet......

I'll post some pics later.

[Cronk]

Day 42 from sprout

Mega Crop 8.5 grams per 1-1/2 gallon 2x per day
with:
Calimagic 2.5ml per 1-1/2 gallon
Liquid Kool Bloom 15ml per 1-1/2 gallon

total ppm 1115
ph 6.0

It appears I have 3 different phenotypes with the Industrials. It also appears that Seedsman may have sent me something other than the Critical 2+ Auto *.

The 3 Industrials are in full flower. 1 is thickening up fast over the entire length of the colas. Very few side branching on this one which I am happy about. The 8 stalks on it are thick and sturdy and I think will hold what will become heavy buds. this is the shortest of the three. One Industrial has a lot of side branching and is wispy with so many leaves I can't pick them all to keep light on the bud sights. Flowers everywhere on this on but they seem to not be as thick as the beefy one This is the tallest of the 3 and looks like Sativa...thin leaves, lots of side branches. The 3rd plant is between these two, displaying features of both, it's the middle height with a good amount of flowers, but still has some wispiness and side branching that is hard to control. They are all responding well to the Mega Crop and additives. They are starting to get sticky

* The Critical 2+ is not flowering at all and shows no sign of doing so. While it's healthy it remains short and grows new leaves slowly. I see no pistils. I keep telling myself it will pop soon but in reality I think it is something entirely different that labeled. sad because I wanted this one to work out. The description sounded great.

Temps are back down to normal for a while so less struggle with keeping below 85F. Supercropping on the tall one, constant taking of leaves and lower branches continue.

[Cronk]

I used.your tip to water the coco with calmag for 2 weeks prior to planting

[Campesino]

Yeah, I remember that. And you haven't had any Ca deficiencies, so the buffer is probably fully established.

In the future, to buffer you can soak (submerged in a bucket) for 8 hours in Cal/Mag water. Drain and repeat for a complete buffer. This will probably be easier and quicker than 2 weeks of treatment, but I think your method worked!

[Cronk]

That sounds better, yeah. I was figuring out the timers and pumps anyway, though. fine tuning

[Cronk]

If the Critical 2+ doesn't flower then I'll switch it to 12/12 after I harvest. Maybe scrog it and let it go big. sounds ridiculous but why not if it lives. I guess I can keep cutting it back

[Campesino]

That is exactly what I would do