To Defoliate Or Not To Defoliate

[Tika]

DrPhoton and all,

This has been a most robust coupling of information, food for thought, research and per usual Q of Defol: (understand I agree with all of the above but speaking to individual grows)
...as I was feeding my humble 6 plants in the 5x9 tent that may seem huge to some but isn't really- hauling them one by one in and out of the tent I was reviewing this thread in my head (therefore talking to myself).

prefacing the below blab with the comment that I DO NOT consider myself an expert grower, nor professional, nor newbie..but always questioning..always wondering...I am a STUDENT OF MY TEACHING PLANTS.

Usually 8 plants in the flower tent and 3 different strains. Grown continuously for 5 years maybe?

POINT: to or not to defoliate depends on MY conditions and strains in MY CONTROLLED environment COUPLED with the LST training from veg to finish always ongoing-twisting down / adding wire as the plant develops and do so when I am feeding because thank you NebulaHaze they are more accepting while you do it during moistening.

LST is NOT a one time event and you may add more wires and twist wires as you go which will depend on your topping and fiming practice too. LST will also inform your defol practice.

Revealing bud sites to light, air flow, and leaving enough fans for photosynthesis ...if you are a small grower inside...YOUR plants will tell you what THEY NEED.
Raise the light/ lower the light, defol, pretty much based on your top or fim choices in seeking a canopy for your light source (including air flow).

Getting at: how you top,fim, lst, space, light, medium. strain and quality (of plant and your environment) will dictate your defol in the end including tendency to sativia or indica.

Green75 with autos has defied all rules, and is growing plump yielding autos.

Where ever you are @RoyalNugs brought temperance to my process / miss you

AND obviously SiriusFourside and NebulaHaze you have been my guide in finding my way-only the kingdom knows how much I love you

IF I were growing outside in abundance - I would not defol but would be up to my ass in "organic" pesticides.

finally...look at your plants and seek their need.
much love

[DingusKhan]

Also, it helps to remember that you can do either, and if you don't overdo anything, it will work great. As new growers, we get over-eager to do stuff OR dead set against doing other things, when really the most important thing is to stay close to the norm and JUST FINISH your first grow. Once you get to the other side, you can do your next one differently, and see if you like it better.

If there are this many growers with this much difference in opinion, then they are probably both right. Do anything that some else has done (read some completed journals, I recommend Tika PDFs) and copy them. Next, copy someone else who does it differently.

You'll be fine.

[DrPhoton]

Sorry i misunderstood you, this is getting a little off topic. However. I think you have the wrong end of the stick, so to speak. The number of plants does not dictate the final yield, the light source does. Ultimately you are always limited by the light source until plants become co2 limited. Adding more plants in a grow, reduces vegetation time. Although because of the structure due to shorter vegetation, you gain efficiency there as well. There is a point where adding more plants creates too much crowding and reduces canopy efficiency. Trying to cram more plants in through pruning practices isnt going to help much, if at all.

If you wish to talk more on the matter give me a pm.

[Chefbjy]

Not saying it improves yield but I do think the control and the time frame you can easily fit more defoliated plants into one area rather than one trained plant that spreads across the whole area. So how do they calculate approximate yield from seeds and strains? Are they based off a process of defoliation or a plant they just let grow to it's full potential? If you could get at least half of what your plant should yield you could grow two more plants in the same space resulting in another half of the max you could get from one that will ultimately grow to fill the environment and only produce what has been recorded.

[abadtrip]

Thanks man I know it's not cheep but If I want to prove shit I need real data not just some fuckin pic of some shit and some 1s fuckin stupid idea of science most ppl don't care and love the placebo effect I on the other hand want data I can graph thanks mate

[Vitreous]

--> abadtrip ...started with Alpha-cat test kits, the a local guy would do Dx testing for 25 a pop, then I said screw it... I invested a grand for my own Dx, we have done comparative testing against each other, we were both actually shocked to learn the testing consistency was bang on with each other.
If you want to start slow and get a good understanding lab wise...I would seriously consider the Alpha-cat...at the end of the day, testing is NOT cheap, if your looking for accuracy.

[abadtrip]

U use them net pots with the cone in them I cut it in half to make it shorter

[DrPhoton]

I would love the idea, of the practice of defoliation to increase yields. Another technique for improved yields is always wanted. However i need more than empiricle data. Even if there is no sound science of the reason how it could possibly work, i would need at least some evidence of a control compared to a variable. So far, the few who have documented it show no improvements but instead inferior results in comparison.

Although i support the idea of providing more light to the lower canopy, this is just for quality rather than quantitiy reasons. Wether this is by removing a select few fan leaves, or by training the plant to allow more light to get through.

[Bigpapa]

Grow #4 Northern Lights
4x4x80 Vivosun tent
Germinated 11/20
8 weeks under 600w MH @ 75%
In week 13 - 5 of flower under 600w HPS @ 100%
3.5 gallon Bubble Boy DWC
General Hydroponics Flora Series + CaliMagic

[abadtrip]

Vitreous what testing equipment are u useing I am wanting some thing to test my bud

[Chefbjy]

How do you feel about Nebula's guide? It's her proven method for getting huge nugs. I can understand your point though with the saved up energy from the bigger lower leaves to keep the plant thriving all the way through harvest. In my opinion this is based off indoor management and to get as much from one plant as you can for a shorter time frame. If the plant were to be a mother defoliation won't benefit you or running a super long veg. I think her process is well written with some serious results. Though your findings are factual and scientifical the thought to increase size and density of the flowers she gets is appealing. I would still like to expirement with yielded results. I'm sure a non defoliated plant would make several flower sites and big colas with some major plant training. But her defoliation guide seems easier and more practical for an indoor grow. With space and control being the main focus. With several defoliated plants I'm sure would out weigh the one plant that takes up your space. Now for an outdoor grow you have more space and bigger plants may benefit more from not being defoliated and would have an obvious increase in yield.

[Vitreous]

Bigpapa

[Vitreous]

Bigpapa, my last harvest was G13's White Critical, totally amazing flowers. An previous grow with Crop Kings White Cookie achieved this as well. The resin production off these 2 strains was truly top shelf.
The lowest THC %age I grew was a mere 19, from Crop Kings Purple Kush, still amazingly satisfying.
I will be harvesting DNA's White Alien soon and I actually have no idea what to expect.

[Dutchman1]

Agreed alltatup.

[Camk]

I think the information here is based on sound science and testimonials and is an amazing wealth of knowledge
i don't think anybody is telling anyone to defoliate or not to defoliate, just presenting the information to let people make a informed judgement
lots of people on this site and others defoliate with some amazing results, but after reading this they themselves may take a different approach to defoliation
some will continue with no change as it works for them
others will experiment and hopefully post their findings
either way this information can only benefit others and i myself thank you for taking the time to post it

Cam