To Defoliate Or Not To Defoliate

[Bigpapa]

Vitreous, what strain are you getting 23% out of?

[Vitreous]

--> abadtrip ...started with Alpha-cat test kits, the a local guy would do Dx testing for 25 a pop, then I said screw it... I invested a grand for my own Dx, we have done comparative testing against each other, we were both actually shocked to learn the testing consistency was bang on with each other.
If you want to start slow and get a good understanding lab wise...I would seriously consider the Alpha-cat...at the end of the day, testing is NOT cheap, if your looking for accuracy.

[abadtrip]

Thanks man I know it's not cheep but If I want to prove shit I need real data not just some fuckin pic of some shit and some 1s fuckin stupid idea of science most ppl don't care and love the placebo effect I on the other hand want data I can graph thanks mate

[Vitreous]

I fuckin hear ya.Just Because a plant says its level of THC is 21%, doesn't mean the grow achieved this amount. I had many arguments about THC levels, which Is why I started testing. I don't speak for the buds I produce, cause I don't smoke it anymore.
I let the people tell the story, and the people say "what ever your doing, don't stop". I live in a city with a million people and weed is everywhere. I have tested the bag weed from multiple street guys and be lucky if the weed is 18%. I have honestly run into a problem where I don't produce enough and the demand is large, people don't want the street weed once they taste nothing but top shelf. Te-he-he! Anyways, I one of those that if i'm going in,.. I'm going in deep.
So I do my best not to waste valuable time and money, and grow the best of the best.
I am being egged on to write a small grow book, I have actually contemplated this idea into like say a small pocket book. I have a great title, but I can't share it, because boy if I do-do it. Its going to sell.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Just thought I would throw this out here, don't know if it's right or wrong, but I'm gonna continue to take all the leaves an branches that's blocking light.It works for me.

[Camk]

I think the information here is based on sound science and testimonials and is an amazing wealth of knowledge
i don't think anybody is telling anyone to defoliate or not to defoliate, just presenting the information to let people make a informed judgement
lots of people on this site and others defoliate with some amazing results, but after reading this they themselves may take a different approach to defoliation
some will continue with no change as it works for them
others will experiment and hopefully post their findings
either way this information can only benefit others and i myself thank you for taking the time to post it

Cam

[Vitreous]

Bigpapa

[Bigpapa]

Grow #4 Northern Lights
4x4x80 Vivosun tent
Germinated 11/20
8 weeks under 600w MH @ 75%
In week 13 - 5 of flower under 600w HPS @ 100%
3.5 gallon Bubble Boy DWC
General Hydroponics Flora Series + CaliMagic

[abadtrip]

U use them net pots with the cone in them I cut it in half to make it shorter

[Tika]

DrPhoton and all,

This has been a most robust coupling of information, food for thought, research and per usual Q of Defol: (understand I agree with all of the above but speaking to individual grows)
...as I was feeding my humble 6 plants in the 5x9 tent that may seem huge to some but isn't really- hauling them one by one in and out of the tent I was reviewing this thread in my head (therefore talking to myself).

prefacing the below blab with the comment that I DO NOT consider myself an expert grower, nor professional, nor newbie..but always questioning..always wondering...I am a STUDENT OF MY TEACHING PLANTS.

Usually 8 plants in the flower tent and 3 different strains. Grown continuously for 5 years maybe?

POINT: to or not to defoliate depends on MY conditions and strains in MY CONTROLLED environment COUPLED with the LST training from veg to finish always ongoing-twisting down / adding wire as the plant develops and do so when I am feeding because thank you NebulaHaze they are more accepting while you do it during moistening.

LST is NOT a one time event and you may add more wires and twist wires as you go which will depend on your topping and fiming practice too. LST will also inform your defol practice.

Revealing bud sites to light, air flow, and leaving enough fans for photosynthesis ...if you are a small grower inside...YOUR plants will tell you what THEY NEED.
Raise the light/ lower the light, defol, pretty much based on your top or fim choices in seeking a canopy for your light source (including air flow).

Getting at: how you top,fim, lst, space, light, medium. strain and quality (of plant and your environment) will dictate your defol in the end including tendency to sativia or indica.

Green75 with autos has defied all rules, and is growing plump yielding autos.

Where ever you are @RoyalNugs brought temperance to my process / miss you

AND obviously SiriusFourside and NebulaHaze you have been my guide in finding my way-only the kingdom knows how much I love you

IF I were growing outside in abundance - I would not defol but would be up to my ass in "organic" pesticides.

finally...look at your plants and seek their need.
much love

[alltatup]

Excellent advice.

[alltatup]

I just went back and reviewed my grow #5 journal. I lollypopped and I was more aggressive with the nutrients, but I didn't defol. Those were the biggest colas I have grown. I was just thinking that I need to do the same grow over again--WW, Lithium OG Kush, C99 and Chemdawg, using the same methods. Here's p. 4 from that journal, and if you look at the pics over the next few pages, you'll see the buds I got. It was my best grow in spite of the hermied C99 and some seeds.

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/124673-atu-grow-5-chemdawg-c99-lithium-og-kush-iced-grapefruit/page4

[Tika]

RIGHT and I did not mention Lolli popping and indeed it is subject to individuality. I do some but then get greedy and like the little ones...
My point being one has to get to making decisions with a little why to get there. as in how many times did you or top your first grow to get where you are?? I shook everytime I fimed. Like to top and fim
love ya girl

[Tika]

Airflow viewed from the side of the plant and bud access to light from top of plant for a basic ..Be the breeze and the sun and then go for it moderately
BE YOUR PLANT...

[alltatup]

Absolutely.

[Dutchman1]

So Dangerdan, I do really appreciate all the things you presented but as others have said it's a lot of material and kinda confusing. I'd like to know what you do for "pruning" and or do you do ANY defoliating?

[DrPhoton]

I just prune bottom branches and leaves prior to flowering. The rest is training practices to make best use of the available light source.

I understand it might be confusing for some, i merely just provide the information for people who wish to refine their own understanding and make a decision based on that. I have actually made several changes over the days to improve the readability. I feel its at its best at the moment. It makes me worry how my next article is going to be interpreted as that is far more detailed and lengthy compared to this. I may have to shoot myself as i am more than halfway done ^.^

[DingusKhan]

Don't do that, post a side by side grow instead!

[alltatup]

DrPhoton wrote: "I just prune bottom branches and leaves prior to flowering. The rest is training practices to make best use of the available light source."

Dan, does this mean that you convert shade leaves to sun leaves by training the plant, or that you expose the buds to light? If you do it to expose the buds to light, then again we are looking at empirical evidence that demonstrates the impact that light has on making buds bigger. If everyone agrees that exposing lower buds to light makes them get as thick as upper buds, then I'm convinced that when done correctly (and I take everythingTika wrote above very much to heart), defol. directly impacts the size of colas.

And Dan, you shouldn't worry about what others will think of the articles you post: we're never all going to agree 100% and see things exactly the same...

[DrPhoton]

Neither. I train the plant to fill the canopy to make best available use of the light source. This means to prevent light from being wasted by completely missing the intended target. If a plant is not trained to fill the canopy then all that energy is being wasted that is not reaching the plant. Instead light is converted into wasted energy in the form of heat. The pruning of lower plant material is a practice called thinning (thinning can be of branch, flower or fruit). This is a common practice in agriculture to control the brix (sugar content) and individual fruit size by reducing the branch or flower-fruit sites.

Actually the content and questions provided by the people on this forum allow me to think in areas perhaps i have not thought of and use that to further improve the articles i write here.

[snowballnhell]

Last year I went to a old-time well known local growers house where I live and saw something really unique. He had what seemed like a small typical grow room with 4 plants under a 600w hps. But what I found really intriguing was that on each plant he had (2) 16 inch 40w 2800K/4100K T9 circline with reflectors spaced a about a foot a part lighting up the lower parts of his plants and the lower bud sites on those 4 plants were huge! I recall him saying something like, he never defoliates, as there isn't a need to do that if you give your plants all the light in all the places they need.

[DrPhoton]

Side lighting is a good example of methods that just do not prove effective, its such a poorly ineffective method that even comercial grows dont use them for yield. Nebula herself does not recommend side lighting for best light/yield efficiency. This also to me goes against defoliation as flowers are more exposed from the side than from the top. This is because leaves cover more horizontal surface area as the flat shaped leaves are in a mostly horizontal position. Where as from the side the surface area collapses. This is why flowers are easier to see from the sides than the top. If exposing light to flowers was as effective as thought to be, side lighting would prove at least as effective as top lighting. But infact its inferrior.

[DrPhoton]

Improved readability and added further information.

[Cab1080]

Thanks Dan, I have read through the articles. Good stuff! I have gotten help from you and others on this forum. I am sure I have done some things wrong but this is my 1st grow. Not sure how much longer they have but they seem to be doing pretty good. Heres some pics.