Sublingual Thread

[Jason]

Well, eating two grams with apple sauce was a total bust. Two grams with two oz of EverClear would have been a huge dose. I don't think I'll repeat that test.

One thought does occur. The tar does not dissolve easily, although I've had some go pretty fast and other blobs seem like they want to be archived.
So I thought of melting a rice sized piece or two into a small amount of glycerin. Then put that under the tongue. So that might be the next test. Goal being to use as little glycerin as possible.

[alltatup]

I'm a little confused: I thought it did work for you. And this was two grams of what? Of decarbed bud? Did you not eat any fat or oil with it?

[Jason]

Two grams of Lift decarbed Yvonna 7, a sativa dom hybrid. I decarbed about 8 grams.
I've made quite a bit of tincture with it, and it will kick your ass. Well, my ass and my friend's ass. With apple sauce, nada. Very disappointing.
No fat or oil. Just the apple sauce. And a vodka/soda chaser a bit later.
May decarb some tar I have frozen and check that out with a bit of glycerin under the tongue. Vaped, that stuff is a real sedative, so I know its packed with good stuff.
Obviously, lots to learn.

[alltatup]

Fat/oil might have been what was missing.

[DoctorJohnson]

> You need a larger dose if you don't feel anything.
But that's just the point, eventually, about an hour and a half after I swallowed, I got a very substantial buzz. But nothing from letting it just sit under my tongue, which is why I say (again) that I think the sublingual route is bogus for cannabis. If you don't believe me, do my experiment and leave it under your tongue without swallowing and see if anything happens.

[alltatup]

I responded to you above on the experiment; did you read anyone's responses? Various people suggested that THC may not absorb sublingually like other compounds.

[Jason]

I'm trying an experiment that I need some help with.
I decarbed about a gram of tar (Evaporated EverClear technique) in the Lift with a couple of ml's of glycerin. Some of the tar dissolved. The tar and glycerin was in a little round silicone container.
My question is.....should I add more glycerin to dissolve all the tar? Or just keep mashing the tar to maximize dissolving. My concern is that at some point the glycerin becomes a saturated solution and no more tar is dissolved.
The goal is to make a water soluble mix for under tongue consumption.

Or does anybody make hard candy or gummies? That could work if they are strong enough.

[DoctorJohnson]

You're essentially talking oil and water--or THC and glycerin, which is about the same thing. The "tar" you are talking about is (I hope) mostly THC, which is a non-polar molecule. Glycerin is a highly polar liquid. Non-polar molecules don't dissolve in polar ones--in fact they separate. Adding more glycerin won't help.

[Jason]

Thanks for those insights.

I found this....."Vegetable glycerin may be used as a solvent and substitute for alcohol when producing botanical and herbal extracts. This is advantageous for people who wish to avoid alcohol exposure."

What is dissolved in glycerin then becomes water soluble. That's my goal.

I've read on this Forum that people use glycerin with cannabis in a crock pot to make edibles. So I just did a slight variation on that theme.

Something in the tar is definitely dissolved. The clear liquid turned dark brown. Which could easily be non THC constituents. A taste test is in store later today.

And for those of you interested in other options, glycerin is also used to make suppositories. Or so I've read. No experience on my part.

[DoctorJohnson]

> Digestion doesn't remove 80% of the THC;
> "What is especially interesting about THC metabolites is that their levels in your body can be more than 10 times higher if you take cannabis in an edible form rather than through other routes (for example, smoking or vaping). "http://profofpot.com/11-hydroxy-tetrahydrocannabinol-potency-edibles/

It takes about 5 times as much THC to get my high when eating it than it does smoking it, so it's not surprising that I would have that much more metabolites in my system. BTW, "metabolites" are the leftovers--fragements, waist products--not the THC itself.

The high from edibles has a much longer "tail" for me, often lasting into the next morning (but just slightly).

[DoctorJohnson]

Thanks for those insights.

I found this....."Vegetable glycerin may be used as a solvent and substitute for alcohol when producing botanical and herbal extracts. This is advantageous for people who wish to avoid alcohol exposure."

Sure, the water-soluble or semi-soluble stuff in herbs will extract into glycerin, but THC is not gonna dissolve well at all in something as polar as glycerin. This is first semester organic chemistry stuff... oil and water. Sorry, not to be a stick in the mud.

[Jason]

I stay away from chemistry for the most part and just base my stuff on recipes I've read.
My pre-med organic chemistry adventure is in the distant past. About 450 students with a professor with such a thick accent he was impossible to understand. Except "You vill zit DOWN and shut up!". Quite the charmer. His over head project skills were minimal.
Mid term 30% of your grade. All mid terms and finals given on the same day. 7 am til 9pm. Mess that up and the next stop was Saigon.

The glycerin test was a disappointment. Which is quite a surprise as online posts with recipes suggest its a very good way to make edible cannabis products.
Back to EverClear. That first test worked the best. A little golden bit and away you go.
Although maybe coconut oil would work well.

I agree the body buzz from edibles is very different than the head buzz from smoke or vape. And longer lasting. No day after effects here.

Lift is on now with the next test batch of flower.

[Jason]

Just found some lollipop and hard candy recipes.
Basically heat your sugars/flavoring and water to 300 F to melt together. Cool to 250 F, add EverClear tincture.
Put in silicone molds to harden.

Idea for me being hard candy will hang around the tongue easily and bathe all those lovely blood vessels.

I've had a certified medical gummy disc from CO. 100 mg THC. Suck on a quarter of it and the effect was fast. 10-20 min. But it felt very medicinal or pharma like. Like all the organic signature of the cannabis had been eliminated, except for the THC. Not something I cared to repeat.

[DoctorJohnson]

I stay away from chemistry for the most part and just base my stuff on recipes I've read.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with O Chem. I had some quirky chem profs too, and one absolutely wonderful one. Too often, I think, people think of chemistry as something remote and irrelevant when of course it's at the foundation of just about everything! It's certainly useful when experimenting with cannabis delivery systems.

[Jason]

I love chemistry and use it every day in my work, not so much for this hobby. Work is more about proprietary acids (start with crystals and invent) and metals to create colors and unique textures. Bronze and silver alloys, heat, humidity, various crystals and water, time, application techniques, etc. What fun!
For cooking I look at recipes. And based on my latest experience, I would have to say glycerin is waste of time for moi.

[alltatup]

SUBLINGUAL VS. INGESTION:

I reviewed a few articles this morning, and I think we are mostly talking about edibles/ingestion in this topic rather than sublingual absorption.

Everyone knows that there's a huge difference in what gets into the system directly thru blood stream (true sublingual absorption, then spitting out), vs. what gets in after it passes thru the liver.

So it may be that the high is more accessible through ingestion, while the medicinal properties are more intact thru sublingual. At least this is what I'm reading.

http://profofpot.com/11-hydroxy-tetrahydrocannabinol-potency-edibles/

https://honestmarijuana.com/marijuan...ied=2bab2a62b6 This is a very complete article that also explains in depth what happens in the liver.

[Jason]

The most consistent good result here is tincture in V8 over the rocks. Predictable in effect and timing.
20 ml or less works well. I could evaporate some of the EverClear out to reduce the ml if desired.

[alltatup]

Yes we are definitely getting effects thru ingestion. I want to do an experiment strictly sublingual absorption no swallowing to see what happens at diff. doses.

[Jason]

Yes, I think I'm getting both. The water soluble parts go in subling, THC and maybe other things are then digested. A very strong hard candy with water soluble THC could be the ticket.

[alltatup]

This morning, I took around 15 drops of tincture (with 5 more drops of CBD tincture added), held under tongue for a minute and spit it out. It worked. The effect is very, very good. When I get home from work this afternoon, I'll try again and see what happens.

I took the CBD slab that I purchased from CBDistillery and turned it into tincture: I had six grams, divided it in two and put it in 2 1-oz. dropper bottles with Everclear. So that's approximately 3-5mg of CBD per drop (@600-900 drops per bottle). This way, the CBD is preserved indefinitely, and I can add it to what I want.