MY FIRST COIR GROW AND I JUST CANT FIGURE OUT WHAT I AM DOING WRONG! Please help.

[Spanky]

My set up Is in the first two pictures.

Some details: humidity is around 44%, temps range from 66-77F, LED manufacturer recommends 18-24 in. Set at 23 inches in photo. A few weeks ago it was lower...around 19 or 20 in. I moved it up because I wasn't sure if that was the problem. Once I let a CFL get too close and it killed a leaf on the more yellow plant. Since then, I have been careful to keep the lights far enough away.

Both are Northern Lights.

pH going in is usually 6.5. Today I made sure it was 6.0. When I first started watering, I had some yellow leaves. Forum told me to repot and not water so much. I did that and things seemed fine when I topped both plants. I haven't given it all that much nute water as it didn't seem to be drying out from a watering that I performed to test the run off. Run off pH was 6.5. The first nute watering may have been too much as I had a bit of yellowing and a dark tip on a leaf. Cal mag has been provided two or three times in their life of six weeks.

I may not have been watering enough as the medium always feels damp an inch down. A few days ago, when I watered one cup each, in a circle around the stem, they perked up a bit.

[Spanky]

Here are some close up photos of the two plants.

When I take a really dead leaf off, it doesn't come away easily. The stem of the last leaf was purple.

This is my second grow and my first was plagued with problems too.

Am I looking at a number of causes or is this just nutrient burn?

[D.A.A.S.69]

Morning Spanky, I don't believe your plants are taking any nutrients in, lock-out.
Are your plants autoflowers ?
Next time you water-feed ,I'd try 5.5ph going in, and see if that did any good ,I'd try that a time or two, you want your run-off between 5.5-6.5. If you can get it to 6.0ph coming out you should be ok. If that doesn't work, you need to flush.
Coco is funny about watering, you have to find out, if you want to feed every day, or wait till it dries an the pot is light before watering. Coco is easy once you figure out how to water. Good Luck with them.

[Canuck147]

Your plants look thirsty to me, I say that cuz your last pic the plants leaves are droopy and hanging down. They should be perky , pointing up.
The new growth in the middle looks real good. I think if you had nutes burn, it would show on all the leaves.
My guess, and that's what it is, that your leaves are yellowing is cuz you need more lighting. Or stronger lighting.

[Spanky]

The photos in the above posts were taken today. I am including these below, which were taken January 16, in case they can be helpful.

Also, when I fed them I used Botanicare pro grow at half the recommended rate. The tops look ok, but is the problem expanding? Maybe I am not seeing it?

Today I was planning to flush both plants because I just didn't know what else to do. Then I remembered Nebula's counsel...don't experiment rashly! So I gave each one a cup of clear pHed water and sat down to look for help from the forum.

Does the coir still have too many nutrients from a previous feeding? Should I flush them tomorrow? Should I put nutrients in the flush? Cal/mag in flush water? If not, when should I feed them again? They haven't been fed since January 11...two weeks ago today.

I don't want to give up as growing my own it is my only source of medicine. But, I am unable to diagnose my problems, no maltter how much research I have done. I don't care how much longer I have to stay in veg...I just want to try to fix this before flowering.

I sure could use help from all of you folks who know how to grow without all these issues. Thank you!

[D.A.A.S.69]

If you ain't fed em in a week, I'd feed em at 5.5ph, an water to run-off, you add
cal-mag every watering.
Check your runoff.

[Vapo69]

Dude I looked up botanicare pro grow.....I couldn't find any for coco(looked really quick tho')which might be a problem, IDK if you can use soil nutes for coco?.....personally I would do as D.A.A.S.69 suggested but I would use 6.0ph .....and defo water to run off with half strength nutes....make sure you wet all the medium.....give it a good soaking dude......two weeks is a looong time between waterings

[Dutchman1]

I agree with Vapo, you need to soak the pots till runoff then let em dry out. Quit the crap with watering em a cup here and there.Also some half or even 1/3 strength nutes would be good. The new growth actually looks pretty good. Cal mag every time for coco or at least every other time. Looks like there turning around. Dont worry about the old growth. Thats not going to fix itself. What is the led? It does look very high .

[DoctorJohnson]

> IDK if you can use soil nutes for coco?
Yes, you can. It says so right on the bottle. And there is nothing magic about coco. Any fertilizer will do. With coco you probably also want to supplement calcium and magnesium, but deficiencies in those don't look like the problem here.

What does look suspicious is that the coco looks dry. Are you watering it every day? You don't treat coco like soil and let it dry out. You water it daily, or even more often that that. See Nebula's coco grow instructions for details.

You really can't overwater coco. (I give mine water plus dilute nutes every 8 hours (on a 24/0 light schedule.)

All that said, I would guess that you have a nitrogen deficiency because of the pale yellow leaves at the bottom.

One more thing: CFLs work best just a few inches from the plant, so move them in closer, and your LED grow light looks way too high unless it's very high wattage.

[Spanky]

Hi Dr. J.
You sound like a handy person to have around a grow space! When you water, do you give it dilute nutes every time?

Every 8 hours! We should get you a puppy that needs such dedicated attention! He could keep you company on those late night waterings.

Thanks.

[Spanky]

First thanks to you all for chiming in!

Let me try to respond and clarify.

They are not autos, but let us hope they stay fems! I was hoping you would find me Dass69. OK, so I should give them enough water tomorrow with nutes and Calmag (and use the latter with every watering) until the coir is all soaked and I get a run off to test. I should get the water to 5.5 going in and hope it is between 5.5 and 6.5 with a goal of 6, coming out. When I water, without nutes, after tomorrow, I should again go with 5.5 going in. If my runoff is between 5.5 and 6.5 I don't need to flush?

Vapo69 says the same except do 6.0 going in. I don't know what defo water is. Perhaps a typo? The last pics are from two weeks ago. I have watered since then, just no nutes as I was afraid I had given too much on January 11. Botanicare Pro Grow is in the nutes tutorial by Nebula. It is ok for coir according to our fearless leader and the company...as mentioned above.

So I should move my lights in closer, including the LED. I can do that. I was just worried that was the problem, they are too close. I thought I might have a nitrogen deficiency too, but the plant problems tutorial says the leaves come off easily and mine don't. But maybe that is in some cases and not carved in stone. Since I haven't provided nutes since January 11 it would make sense.

I know I am really not understanding watering and coir. When they were in the solo cup, I was told too much water. I have read journals where folks water heavily and others where they use the one inch deep finger test for moisture. I thought that is what Nebula said in the coir tutorial. I have read it probably 10 times but I miss things and I will read it again.

If I try the more frequent watering method, how quickly will I see a negative reaction and what will it look like? I know droopy, but are yellow leaves also a symptom of too much water, too often!

So, am I hearing that this is what a plant also looks like when not watered enough? Yellow leaves that move up the plant?! I thought for sure I had nutrient burn!

So, I will try a lot more water with nutes and Calmag and the pH as suggested. I will check run off and see if I should flush after the second time I water.

If I flush, should I add nutes and Calmag? Just Calmag? Or just water?

Now the big question, how will I know it is working? And in what time frame? If everything perks right up and stays that way from lots of water and more regular nutes, I shouldn't expect to see any advancement of yellow leaves, right?

[Dutchman1]

Its definitely not light burn. That would be on top not on the bottom leaves. will take a day or three to see how effective everything you do is.

[Spanky]

There was one other thing that I'm not sure anyone noticed. I have a small heater that was set to come on if temps went below 67 F. My space is well insulated but, like the rest of the country, we had some very cold nights. I have since changed it to come on at 64F. It is located behind the plant with the worst yellowing. However, the thermostat probe is very close so it should be turning off when it reaches temp. I have seen it operate correctly on the readout located outside my grow space. And, my exhaust fan is on full time.

I bring it up in case you folks think a periodic blast of hot air throughout the dark period is contributing to the problem. The blower side is facing the wall and not the plants.

Thanks again everybody. I appreciate having people with so much experience to turn to. And thanks for not making me feel like a complete loser. I can do that all by myself!

[Waltermelon]

You should be watering at least once every 2 days. You can't treat coco like soil. I use cutting edge base nutes, m.p.k. and calimagic full strength. My schedule is feed, water, water, repeat. I water every day no matter how wet the coco is. It's near impossible to over water coco, unless it's in standing water. Do some more reading about how to grow with coco. The yellowing you're getting is almost certainly caused by not using enough cal-mag. I don't see any other issues here besides not enough nute solution.
You should notice a difference in about 2 days if you're feeding them right. There won't be an adverse reaction to you feeding them. Remember, you are in a hydro system. You have to give them the proper amount of nutrition, because there is none in the substrate.

[Spanky]

Thanks, Waltermelon. You are right, I have only read Nebula's coco tutorial and Tika's journals. I will do some more reading later today. My first grow (this is my second) was in soil and I got such a gnat infestation I decided to try coco. So far, that is not one of my problems, but starting with coco is like learning all over again.

[DoctorJohnson]

> When you water, do you give it dilute nutes every time?
Yes

> Every 8 hours! We should get you a puppy that needs such dedicated attention! He could keep you company on those late night waterings.
A timer turns a pump on for one minute every eight hours. Easy. I love coco, but having to water every day was a pain, so I automated. Radio Shack timer, cheap aquarium pump, some hose... I'm recirculating the nutrients so only have to fuss with nutes once a week at this point. (When the plant gets bigger and is drinking more, it the reservoir will need more attention.)

[Spanky]

Growers on this forum have the most ingenious ideas!

When you say you are recirculating the nutes, do you mean the runoff water goes back in?

I have read so many warnings about salt build up and lockout. Is this a concern with your method?

Do you know, if I have to flush, should I do it with nute water or just Calmag?

[Canuck147]

Flush with pH ed water or flush with some kind of tea or molasses

[Waltermelon]

Salt build up is why I do a feed, water, water schedule. The first water loosens up the salt from the feed, the second flushes it out. I've had success with a feed only, at half strength regimen, but I've found it's a lot less work only mixing nutes 3 times a week as opposed to mixing every day. Gets a little old, even with a very small scale grow like mine. The mono potassium phosphate that I use is almost pure salt also, so my mix may be a little salter than most folks mixes.
You can use cal-mag every water, but I only run it on my feed days (at full strength) I hadn't had any yellowing yet. You can also add other small things to the water days to fine tune your grow like silica, molesasses, teas, I just wouldn't put anything salt based if you run a full strength nute regimen.
A good read on your symptoms, purpling, to yellow leaves would be how and why a plant uses magnesium. It's basically sunscreen, it's mobile within the plant once it's stored (nitrogen isn't). There's a lot of good info out there. If you can think of a a question it's been asked over 100 times, you just have to ask Google the right questions.

[Spanky]

The right question is right! Last grow we installed a salt based water conditioner. It never crossed my mind this would be a problem. I am really new at this. Never thought to ask. However, I never read anywhere that this might not be good for my plants! Come spring, my vegetable seedings were suffering and I realized my trouble. Fortunately, we bypassed several outdoor faucets that produce straight well water. I need to do a bit of lugging, but thank goodness I figured it out.

Maybe someone new will read this and learn from my dumb mistake!

My plants have perked up a little with just one saturating water...full dose Calmag, 1/2 strength nutes, and a lower pH going in. Number one's runoff was 6.5. Number two was 5.0. I am going to try the nute water, water, water, nute water etc. regime. I will do it every other day. I'm still afraid of overwatering. But, I can increase it as I see no harmful effects.

I have read about some of those supplements, but I think I better wait until I get better at diagnosing things.

If I get to flowering, I hope I don't have as many questions!

Thanks for the good explanation.

[Dutchman1]

Sounds like your on the right track now Spanky. Id continue to do what your doing now.