KingKush grow #2 - 3000w Bruce Banner in soil

[KingKush]

Feb. 10

The two Bruce Banners that were NOT manifolded (just topped and not lollipoped) are slightly ahead in terms of height, but I think the total leaf area is similar. The manifolded plants have rebounded extremely well.

[KingKush]

Feb. 15

-Still unsure if manifolding will produce anything advantageous
-Thrips are bugging me
-Need to grow clones faster
- Loving the amended soil, no nutes needed yet
-Tiny bit of leaf tip curl, hot soil

[Chefbjy]

You have such a big environment is the manifold just expiremental? I would think the size of your space would have more advantages. Bet you'll still get some killer fat colas though. That's one if my fav strains. Looks like a great manifold.

[KingKush]

Feb 17

Sprayed sulfur today (Lilly Miller Sulfur Dust mixed with some water)
- controls White Powdery Mildew (WPM)
- also, good control of Thrips

[KingKush]

Feb 20

Well it's been 7 weeks completed about 50days from germination. I wish I did NOT manifold I could have an entire field of budsites, ready for the flip, just like the schedule says.... instead I'm stuck with 2 runts that are just making me more and more sad every week.
Oh and to rub salt on the wound, my cat decided to rub the manifold and snap off one of the ends with like 3 nodes with of growth, thanks cat you eliminated 2/5ths of my plant! Geeze!!!

Why did I manifold?
- because I can? It looks pretty and I just wanted to grow some huge chunky monsters of plants I guess.... the best thought I had was "I will get just as much nugget, and perhaps MORE of quality nugs, less larf"
- things are looking dim, these two manifolded girls better perform in the second half is all I'm saying!

[KingKush]

Feb 22
Flip Day
1st entry into the Bloom Room

Plants are still showing leaf tip curl, slight nitrogen toxicity
-still zero apps of nutes, im amazed....
Freeze snap last night, room got cold I'm sure and that's why the leaves look a little droopy.
So here's my power estimation for Veg:
kWH = watts/ 1 x hours
kWH= 1000/ 1 x 18 for 50days (equals $2.16/day)
= 900kWH @ $0.12 equals
$108.00 roughly just to power my light for 7 weeks

Now I'm at $2.40 per day for Bloom (more light but less hours)

I turned off my veg light for a while sheesh!!! That thing is a power hog. Out of all the inefficiencies, I don't need 1000w for veg most of the time. It's nice the last few weeks but otherwise it's overkill.

[KingKush]

Feb 23

Manifolding-
Here is a side-by-side comparison on the exact same strain grown in the exact same environment. Only 1 variable was changed in a singe pruning technique. Two plants were manifolded, two were grown in my regular fashion (topped once). The rest has been the same-same. These ladies are all the same age, 7 weeks old from sprout.
If manifolding increases yields, then I either timed my pruning inappropriately, or something else major went awry.
-Good thing I kept this journal for all you manifolders out there to school me up.

This is only the halfway point, there is still a chance for better impressions with the manifold as buds start developing. However, I am greatly discouraged by this *costly* experiment so far.

Hey you two, perhaps these observations will be insightful.
DrPhotonCampesino

[Campesino]

KingKush Sorry I haven't been following this journal till now...
What is it that you are concerned about? It looks good to me. As the stretch progresses you should see that the manifolded plants all produce similar size colas. The Manifold helps to equally distribute the plants resources so that it is more efficient. I'd say it's to early to come to any conclusions. I am happy to follow along with the experiment!
What is all over the leaves?

[KingKush]

No worries, trying to keep it clean and concise so that it reads like a photo timeline so I'm not concerned if anybody notices or not.
We had talked about pruning recently and so I was directing some interest towards a half decent comparison. I definitely would like to see 8 soda-bottle-buds that are all a half ounce each (dried)! I'll see these girls through to fruition and do them justice.

The spots on the leaves are sulfur. Literally just sulfur dust mixed with water from the last foliar spray app. I went heavy. It's the old timers trick for growing buds in 100% humidity at 55°F here next to the ocean. Some true OG (Ocean Grown) stuff. Prevents nearly all powdery mildew attacks in bloom, and it knocks down thrips and gnats fairly well. I do it right before any budlets get formed so all my nugs grow without it. It stays on the large shade leaves. It's labeled for edible garden veggies. And stays out of the buds if you do it this way.

[Campesino]

Ahh the trials and tribulations of humidity.
Almost everyday I am reminded how lucky I am with the weather here. Today it is cool 54 degrees and Dry 20%.
Cool trick though!
I predict that in the next couple of weeks you will start to see the benefits of the Manifold... we'll see!

[Locrian99]

Seriously I was just looking at your recent pics thinking wtf is all that in the lower leaves lol

[PRIMO]

If you have a grow room and a flower room in the garage why not insulate them and get a dehumidifier? Problem solved?

[KingKush]

All that costs money. And sealing the rooms means airflow management with intakes and exhausts and filters and etc.... it's endless! I'm a grower not a builder meaning I'm just trying not to kill my plants for 12 weeks and get some bud.

[KingKush]

March 5
day 11 of flowering

Sex revealed, all females. Wasn't sure because these are from seed.
Manifolded plants are looking great, too bad one lost an arm a few weeks ago it woulda filled out nicely. Looking more promising but still don't think I will try this technique again.
Just plain tap water straight outta the faucet, no nutes yet.

[Chefbjy]

Yeah I'm doing it on clones and it's taking some time for them to progress. But that's what I get for trying on clones lol. I think they look very healthy can't wait to see some nugs.

[KingKush]

Here's for all those who despise HPS yellow pictures. Got a shot in the dark just for you.

[KingKush]

March 10
Day 16

1st nutrient app. 2tsp Buddha Bloom to everyone.
Always looking droopy!
-could be from 'underwatering'
-root mass could be preventing water from wicking into the center so it may only be getting water from a certain % of the roots? Tomorrow I will poke some holes from the top, into the middle of the root mass and give some plain h2o to get things nice, wet and dirty; my favorite way to spend time with my ladies. And hopefully more perky because I'm done with them being saggy.

Manifolding update: outlook improving and learned some new ideas. Overall they are doing great.
1)Read that "older plants produce more THC," whether true or not it sounds logical to me. So perhaps a manifold plant you could grow older and still fit into a small space.
2) I can fit more manifolded plants into a given space.
which would benefit growing more and more strains. If I had to grow many different strains I might try more manifolding to keep everyone at the party.

[Chefbjy]

I don't care for the plastic pots anymore. I use fabric pots for final containers. Hope you get them perky again.

[Campesino]

I think the benefits of manifolding will continue to reveal themselves over the next several weeks... happy that outlook is improving for you.
Hope you solve the droop!

[KingKush]

March 10
Veg Room & Rooting

Well a major overhaul on the Veg area. Transplant all
my clones out of the solo cups and into final containers.
Re-modeled my 24w t5 light into a reflected hood monster haha it seriously puts down some light now. I want to put two cfl on each corner of the hood that will be coming soon. Like 8 extra 6500k 32w cfls on splitters hanging from each corner.

Trying to keep my kilowatt hours down on this grow. I feel that's a good step in the right direction.

2 Trainwreck
2 OG Kush
1 OG Kush or Bruce Banner (FU@&ING kidding me boss? Nice label job ya hack!) lost the label lol

[Campesino]

Yeah, mine opened up after a day on their own because the silly plants pulled against their restraints so hard in forced the supercrop to open. I used grafting tape on all and am pretty sure that by keeping the air out they will heal-up and not miss a beat... We'll see

[KingKush]

Campesino Locrian99

I don't think the stems have split. The mani folded plants have simply not revealed themselves to be superior in any way to my 'regular' plants. I'm doing a side-by-side comparison right now with the same strain topped/LST'd vs. Manifold. I have two manifolded and two regularly trained.
I may only see the benefit at harvest. Which is fine, I'm determined to see this experiment through to completion and I want to gather as much evidence as possible.

One of my manifolds lost 1/3rd of its branches after my cat rubbed against it and broke off a large portion so that is why I have a runt (the plant will be judged on what she DOES have, ) and the other manifold is performing nicely.

I won't try it again, justtopping and bending (LST) on thes next crop I'm going to try as big as possible. Big plant style next run.

Oh and Locrian99 : build a hood! There is a huge differemce in reflectivity and helps focus the light a little more to get it more
intense.

[Locrian99]

Could be mr Furley commented that topping and doing the wagon wheel he has better results with photos than manifolding. But better with manifolding autos. Could be strain dependent as well I imagine.

[KingKush]

March 13
Veg Room & Seedlings

Using 150w HPS to veg 20/4 light schedule
- Read a quote from Nebula that changed my mind, "if you have the tools why not use them?"
-Had this 150w HPS collecting dust on a shelf so After reading that I decided to put it into use.
-24w t5 is now over seedlings I like the way the hood cups the humidity dome.

*EDIT - these 5 are my neglected clones so that's why they are all scraggly and ugly. It is what it is.


Germination Date: 3/10
-Popped 5 beans the other day, same Bruce Banner bag seed as this journal so all are sisters from the same batch. 3 sprouted thus far which is fine considering I somehow "lost" 3 beans trying to plant them? Stoned moment... I misplaced them somewhere in the soil in one or two of the cups so perhaps they will join the party a little later.

[Campesino]

Yeah, I am chuckling... Misplaced seeds... probably in the soil! LOL

[KingKush]

I had 5 in a cup of water and I thought "oh just pour a little water out on the soil" so I did but when I looked in the cup I only had 2 seeds left and I spent and HOUR thumbing the tops of the cups looking around for them and didn't find even one. I'm like "geeze how am I going to survive in August bro??? lol"

-there was a double sprout yesterday. I gently lifted one out and put it into a *fresh cup of soil. Saved my ass!

[Campesino]

It's a wonder we can pull this off since we're always high while Gardening

[KingKush]

March 13
Day 19

Well there was a big storm last night and the girls exploded with lots of fresh energy.

Plant Morphology
-Miss Regulars were gently spread apart and a handful of large leaves were plucked from the top middle in order to provide deeper light penetration and increase canopy depth. An example of pruning vs. defoliation. Controlling your canopy with physical manipulation is essential to a bountiful harvest. Coupling this with the proven horticultural techniques of pruning & leafing will increase yields.
-I also will take the top 1/3rd of the large upright branches and bend them over sideways, just up to the point of supercropping.

-Miss Manifolds were bonded a little more snugly, and received the same treatment of exposing the central canopy to more light with the removal of some larger leaves in the middle tops of the plants.
-Budset looks delayed by about 1wk. It's just a look and I think the plants are gaining momentum rapidly the upright stems are ultra thick which is usually an indicator of potential cola size.

The plants are beginning to speak for themselves.

H2O and Water Management
Water Timing
-"Don't put your girls to bed wet" -is this an agronomic principle?
Because lots of people tote this idea as being factual and real when in my studies of horticulture and agronomy, the best times to water are at night or just at dusk when the evapotranspiration rates are lowest and the stomata open at night to allow photorespiration to occur.
-I can't think of any crops that get watered in the middle of the hot sunny daytime as the primary irrigation cycle. Sure, supplementary and as needed to prevent wilting, but irrigation cycles at night are proven (with multiple decades of research) to be vastly more efficient at actually hydrating your crop.
-Early early morning would be second best as the water has time to infiltrate the soil before the sun evaporates it into the atmosphere (which is not entering the plant)
-Budrot? That's the only example of a situation where increased moisture inside the flowers during higher humidity at night may trigger fungal growth but again, it's usually due to the other causes in the disease triangle ( Host, Pathogen, Environment)

Anyways just some more things to ponder. As for me, I water in the morning during peak winter but as the night time temps start to stay above 50°F I change to watering in the evenings for the reasons I stated. This week I switched my schedule and I think that's why they exploded. The only time I get budrot is from exudes oozing from where I snipped leaves off, the remaining stub oozes sugars and makes budrot. That's one reason I just leave all the leaves on when I chop and hang.

Happy Growing

[Campesino]

I regularly put my girls to bed soaking wet. I agree with your comments on water timing.

[KingKush]

So I found my post above to be slightly in error when I mentioned "photorespiration" - that is an informal term that should be corrected with the following clarification:

Photosynthesis

So "photorespiration" is not really a textbook term. I was thinking about this concept:
"In C3 plants, under conditions of low soil moisture and hot, drying winds, the stomatas of the leaves will close in order to conserve water, which then blocks the flow of CO2 into the leaf. When this occurs, the entry of CO2 into the leaf is restricted, resulting in a dramatic drop in photosynthesis."
So "photorespiration" would be a bad thing if heat and/or drought is causing your plants to stop respiration. RESPIRATION is the correct term.

"Respiration is the release of energy stored in carbohydrates when the plant is making ATP for itself. In a sense, using the photochemical reactions of photosynthesis (CO2 + H20 + Light = C(H20) + O2) and using electrons (gained from electromagnetic light waves striking pigments in the chloroplast thylakoids) to make carbohydrates."

Did you know?
-"Glucose is the source of energy for metabolism and provides some of the "raw material" for other metabolites throughout the plant. Glucose can combine with other sugar molecules to form compounds such as sucrose, startch, and cellulose. Startch and cellulose are chains of glucose molecules linked together."

So, plants make carbohydrates and use that for energy (plants need Glucose as the starting molecule for respiration) in order to make the "ingredient list" for ATP. A plant uses glucose to basically make NADH & FADH. These pass through a cascade of enzymatic Electron Transfer reactions and ATP + O2 + H2O are the net energy product of respiration.

Plants are autotrophs, meaning they can make carbohydrates out of thin air and water. Literally! We animals and humans are not that capable and are labeled heterotrophs, meaning we MUST eat plants or eat animals that eat plants.

So in short, don't let your plants dry out and respiration is when the plant releases oxygen and water vapor due to making carbohydrates. Respiration comes to a halt if the plant runs out of water at the root zone or if the environment causes a defensive reaction (very dry and hot). No respiration, no carbohydrates are being made. No carbohydrates = no growth.

All sources and quotes taken from the text:
McMahon, Margaret , Anton Kofranek, and Vincent Rubatzky. Plant Science: Growth, Development, and Utilization of Cultivated Plants, 5th ed. Prentice Hall, 2011

[Campesino]

Well, not sure how this applies to original idea of watering at lights out, because C3 plants only take up CO2 during the photoperiod. C4 plants can absorb and store CO2 all the time, which is the main difference between C3 and C4 plants. With C3 plants photosynthesis and respiration required for it are inactive during the dark period, but the Calvin cycle continues, hence growth occurs at night, but it is driven by stored energy.

[KingKush]

@Campesino
Rambling in my own journal actually helps me in the grand scheme of things to figure out real truths and not be mislead. Reading it back to myself provides insight.
I was grasping for some sort of conclusive evidence but all I came up with was a reinforcement of cultural practices. I water at dusk because of these reasons:
1)The plant needs it most after being in peak temp / low rh all day
2) least amount of water loss due to evaporation
3) less loss equals more water at the root zone

Truthfully I got this from working on a golf course. It's called the water window: you gotta get all your irrigation completed between the last golfer and before you mow in the morning before the first golfer. So like 8 hours of watering gets squeezed into 6 in the middle of the summer.

I was trying I equate this principle to cannabis but I don't think we have to worry about that so much lol

[Campesino]

FORE!

Yes, I regularly apply knowledge from experience with horticulture and working with farmers. I think this is good practice, especially for the practices that truly transfer. I think the only problem with watering before lights out is humidity, but if that isn't a problem, go ahead. During flowering I do not go into the tent during darkness and I do not go into the tent when the light is on. That means I only have access at lights on and off. When I water 2x per day, I have no choice but to water at both times. When I water only once it is typically before lights on, because I want them to have water available during the day. Soil holds onto water so much better that I doubt there is much significance.
I liked reading your ruminations and ramblings. Good stuff!